When Facebook went public, did I put money in it? No, not a dime, because that's betting on the short term. How do you explain that that's a long-term investment? Because it's governed by code, right? There's nothing you can change about it. It's not some mystery of speculation. I don't think Bitcoin's going to fail because Dave Ramsey said don't do it. What if I gave you a Bitcoin? Would you take it or would you not accept it? Andre Jik, a financial YouTuber, confronts Dave Ramsey on crypto and Bitcoin. I'm going to watch this, give you my two cents, and I would also love to just hear your take on this whole matter. What do I need to do differently? Should I sell my crypto? Oh, sure. You know that. I mean, Dave's not ever going to tell you to do crypto. And the reason is not because I'm a stupid boomer that doesn't understand crypto. That's not it at all. Where I think people get confused, and they have on this subject for sure, the subject of gold also, is confuse our terms and use the wrong word. Okay? There is speculation, and speculation is for short-term gain. Okay? I'm day trading stock. I'm buying a currency, I'm buying gold, because if you were buying gold for the long term, you would look at its 100-year track record of 2% and you would never buy it. So you're speculating. Flip this house, you're speculating. It's called a spec home, so you're speculating. That is not investing. Investing is always, by definition, long term. And you would never invest long term in something that has a crummy or non-existent long term track record. by definition, if it doesn't have a long-term track record, you are speculating. You're guessing. And so when you say my investment portfolio, it should not include speculation. You could say, I've got my investment portfolio, and then I'm doing this thing on the side, I'm flipping houses. But flipping houses is not a portfolio. Well, I guess when I look at investing, I look at it on a spectrum. Like if Bitcoin was here, right? Or rather, if scams were on this end of the spectrum and treasury bonds were on this side of the spectrum. All investing is a form of speculation. So you have the S&P somewhere closer to. Speculation by definition is short term. But couldn't you hold on to Bitcoin for the long term? Like there have been people that have. You could hold on to it for the long term, but you have no reason to believe based on history because it doesn't have one. Right. That you're going to win, except just your assumption that because it's digital, it's cool. So I chat to BT what speculating means. And it says making guesses or forming theories without having firm evidence. I tend to be more on the on Andre's side because anytime you invest in something there's no guarantee so there is a form of speculating but I also understand where Dave's coming into where it's like you want to invest with some type of framework and track record and investing in some crypto coin will just say or like a you know something that has no track record it feels more like gambling and And so that's going to be one of the things that they're going to both disagree with is in Dave's mind, the world of crypto is just essentially gambling. And I think in Andre's mind, there's a form of speculation, but there's a form of speculation in almost anything you do minus putting your money in a high-yield savings account or a treasury. I think you would say the tradeoff is it's way more guaranteed, but as a result, the upside is way less. Well, the cool kids are doing it. But the people that are getting in it are getting in it based on greed. They're not basing it on long-term, I have analyzed this investment with my calculator, and I am looking into the future, and I can see that's known as a guess. Have you ever studied the technicals of Bitcoin? I think that's a good question because some of the crypto people or Bitcoin people would be like, listen, we have a thesis. It could be wrong. They would never say that, but it could be wrong. but they're They're not just throwing money at something. They really believe the economics applying to man, like Bitcoin's going to hit a certain milestone. And so it's just interesting to see the different perspectives. White paper or understood like how it works. Sure. I mean, I've not gone into nowhere near like you have. I'm sure you're probably much more of an expert on it than I am. But it just falls into a category. The technicals won't change it for me. OK, so if you had the same thing of a new tech stock, a new tech company blows up. They go from venture capital. They're going to take it public. They're going to do an IPO. Am I putting money in that? No. When Facebook went public, did I put money in it? No. Not a dime, because that's betting on the short term. Now, you look back 10 years, has Facebook done okay? I don't know. I don't follow their stock, but probably. Probably could have been okay. I may have missed out, but I don't play short term. I play long ball. That's investing. And so once you put it in that category, I just don't do it. I don't have to go into the technicals because I'm not going to play. I'm just trying to find the missing link between who you are as a person, because I agree with... everything you say and i'm like how do i still agree and believe in bitcoin because i'm not a short-term investor that's kind of where i feel when it comes to life insurance is like dave i love you i love a lot of aspects that you say why why do i still believe in certain things that you adamantly oppose and hate and yet i still want to be your friend so i i appreciate this energy from andre Holding it for the long how do you explain that that's a long-term investor because it's governed by code, right? There's nothing you can change about it. It's not some mystery of speculation everything Yeah, but it is it is a current is a commodity. It is not it's not a currency Okay, a commodity so commodity prices are driven by one thing supply demand, right? That's all yes You can't write the technical white paper on that. No, you can't but the so if everybody suddenly abandoned It's just interesting almost everything is based on supply and demand. I guess you could say that there's underlying value in some of these other companies but you're going to see when you start looking at the companies that make up the s&p 500 a lot of times it's built on supply and demand and they're trading for greater like their their values greater than what they have underlying in cash this bitcoin your bitcoin is going to be worth air sure if everybody comes after bitcoin like a baptist after a casserole your bitcoin is going to go through the roof that's okay You are not in control of that. You cannot predict that with a white paper or technicals. True, but I feel like you can say that about anything, whether it's a particular stock or stock market, bonds. People can abandon that in lieu of something else. They could, but they don't have a history. The difference here is you don't have a history. The technicals are based on what they hope, wish, think, but so is the IPO. This year, actually, in April, Bitcoin became more scarce. I will say that Dave Ramsey makes a really good point to this, that unlike other aspects of the stock market… you'll see Bitcoin is a lot more volatile. That's because its value prop is the scarcity mechanism, and its value prop is a scarcity mechanism. Whereas other businesses, you still have the supply and demand. And we saw this with GameStop. Some of the things didn't make sense, but you just had people holding the line kind of deal. And so there's those aspects where it's still supply and demand, but there is an underlying mechanism that we say is important. Hence why we're going to invest in something because of earnings, because of projections, whereas Bitcoin is literally built on that supply and demand. Though the difference between Bitcoin and gold is Bitcoin's over the last couple of years has outperformed and a lot many would say has a far greater upside than gold from a standpoint of not just checking some of the boxes that gold gives you but ultimately has greater upside and is where the future is going to go. So I believe. That would be the argument. By the way, if you're a Bitcoiner or a crypto person, I would love to hear your commentary in the comments and hear the thought process, even the exchange that Dave had around commodity versus currency. I would love to hear your thoughts around that. My supply than gold in terms of the Yeah, but last year in April, it wasn't. I think you're genius. I think you've done a great job with the portfolio. Would I do that? I think we have the question answered. I would not do that. To be fair, I'm not here to convince anyone. I just love to get Dave's perspective. Because to be honest, I think a trillion dollar asset like Bitcoin will do its thing regardless of whether I speak about it or not. I have no influence on it. Same here. I don't think Bitcoin is going to fail because Dave Ramsey said don't do it. What I'm worried about is that guy who should be putting money in his 401k. He should have paid off his car. Right. He should be thinking long term. He should be getting his house paid off. And instead, he's freaking putting money in this stuff. That's absurd. Right. That's a fair point. I would agree with that. There's other priorities. He's who I worry about. Yeah. I don't worry about you and me. If you lost in that portfolio, if you lost 100% of your Bitcoin, you're okay. Right. You're still a multi-millionaire. Sure. You're still an incredible portfolio. So, you know, this becomes a theoretical argument at that point. Right. What if I gave you a Bitcoin? Would you take it or would you not accept it? Well, it would be pretty hypocritical. As much as I have tried the idea publicly since it became a thing. How could you say no? I could easily say no. What if you gave me a free credit card? I could say no. Would it kill me? No, it wouldn't kill me. You wouldn't accept it? No. Wow. It would be hypocritical. How could I do that with integrity? I'd tell everybody not to do it. But for me, I can take it. You can donate it. Okay, I'll donate it back to you. Okay, that's fair. I tried. Okay. So this is the car. It would be like if maybe I'm anti-mutual funds, which I'm not. But let's say I'm like super anti-mutual. Or here's a good one. I'm not a big fan of a 401k, especially entrepreneurs. Not the biggest fan of a 401k, especially traditional 401ks. But if someone gifted me a free 401k, I would accept it. So I think it's one of those things you could say it's hypocritical. I understand that. But It also, like, do you find that some of your credibility, like, goes out the window when you just are, you know, won't accept free money? Part of me thinks that would be, like, if you or Dave are getting a call there and someone literally is calling you and saying, I am given a free Bitcoin, would you tell them? not to do that? Of course not. You would say, get the Bitcoin and sell it. That's what you probably would say. And so not to put words in your mouth, but I would imagine that's what you would say. You would never say, don't take it because your moral compass is gone. So I think it's, I think it's, I appreciate his stance. He was also asked by Graham Stephan, if you were given a 0% loan, would you take it? He said no. But, you know, Dave Ramsey's a smart guy. He could literally put that in treasuries. And, you know, so I think there's a spectrum to the whole thing. He's going to stick to the line. And I actually like this video for a couple reasons, because when Dave Ramsey says certain things like life insurance, his stance on retirement, his stance on annuities, his stance on certain aspects that people have different opinions on, you just have to understand that Dave Ramsey is not going to have the energy and attitude to say, OK, in some case scenarios, it's this. Some cases like because he wouldn't build an empire and effective media. He wouldn't be a media mogul and amazing communicator if he took that approach. The best communicators in the world are very black and white. They can turn people off, but they bring a lot of people in because of their definiteness. One of the things that was brought up is this idea of speculating and how there needs to be a track record and all. And it's just interesting because when he was saying that, you know, Dave Ramsey is a fan of mutual funds, but I think Dave Ramsey would be a big fan of the S&P. And what's interesting to me is you look at the S&P. The S&P has seven companies that are made up of over 30% of the S&P. Okay, now get this. Apple makes up 6.5% of the S&P, and they joined the index in 2009. They joined the index in 2009. So that's less than, I don't know, 14, 15 years of track record, and they're making up the most of the S&P. And you would make the argument, a lot of people on this list, are investing, speculating in what the future looks like. They're making bets when you look at AI. There are going to be companies that are going to get added to the S&P 500 that don't even exist right now. And that's how fast the world's going. And so regardless of investing, you are putting your money in some speculation. What Dave could say here is, yes, but that's diversified. You're bundling it up into other investments to help. And that's the whole idea of like, that's what I would say. If you're a big fan of Bitcoin and crypto, just make sure you're diversified. Some people are putting a lot of eggs in that basket. And just like anything, I'm a big fan of my business. It doesn't mean all my eggs are going to be in the basket forever. I'm diversifying in other places. I'm not a ride or die, like Bitcoin's going to be change the world kind of deal. But I do believe that the upside potential in Bitcoin's there. And so I have a portion of my portfolio in there and I'm dollar cost averaging. every single month into that portfolio for that reason. Part of me, it does pain me to be like, why didn't I have this epiphany five years ago? But at the end of the day, you can't look back. You just have to look to the future and say, what are the different asset classes that I want to represent and go for it? But is it less than 10% of my portfolio? Yes. Is it around 5%? Yes. Is this investment advice? No. But that's very much how I see this. And so when you look at the overarching of my portfolio, it's still very low. Do I have friends that are 30, 40, 50% of their investing and save, or I should say investing or going into Bitcoin? Yes. And they're hardcore into it. Um, and they, they'll probably be buying me dinners and lunches in the future based on how things are trending. Um, but there, so in a way I, I'm, I'm more in the Dave Ramsey camp and some of his points that he's making, because if I was more in the Andre camp, I probably would be. 20, 30, 40 percent, my conviction's not there quite yet because while right now it's good, could future presidencies, could certain regulations really tamper? Yes, which ultimately means there is that it's a little bit too supply and demand focused right now. And so while I get the point, I get the vision, that's kind of why I'm not like all in. Some of these other companies, Microsoft has 6%. They've been in it for... since 1994, which is, again, 20, 20, 25 years in the making. What is that? 30 years? 30 years in the making. So they've been in the S&P for 30 years. NVIDIA has been in since 2001. Amazon, a big company that we get all of our packages from, has only been in the S&P the last 20 years. You have Alphabet, Google. 2012, they were added. Meta, which Dave Ramsey says that he owns nothing. Potentially, he owns some if he has any money in the S&P. Joined since 2013, and they own 2.2%. Tesla was added in 2020. So my point is, we can say that we're just investing in fundamentals, but there is an aspect. Whatever you invest in, there's a form of speculation, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing. Overall, we'd love to hear your take. If you enjoy these videos, Please let me know, and if there's other videos that I should be responding to or commenting on, please tag me, let us know, and for more videos like this, subscribe.
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