Welcome to another episode of the And Asset Show. All right, this is our fourth time trying to record this episode because of technical difficulties. We thought it had to do with a limit issue on how much content we recorded. And Riverside said, nope, you got to upgrade your plan to be unlimited. And what we came to find out is that it's just a Riverside issue, Riverside issue. So we are starting over, starting from scratch, doing it for the fourth time. And I'm going to make the same lame joke for the fourth time in a row. I'm not going to laugh. It's still going to be funny. Amazing. All right. So some of you guys have been wondering, where is Caleb Williams at? Well, Caleb is being super intentional with his family. And he decided to opt out for this week. And it's funny. Caleb calls me Dominic Rufrin. And we've known and been friends for seven, eight years at this point. and it's Dominic Rufran and so Caleb Williams with a W is not here which I know he gets flack all the time with his last name just as I do I and also we have Mr. Demetrius Walker head of sales one of our top wealth coaches to replace Caleb this week Caleb will be back but we're gonna have still an amazing conversation regardless so Demetrius aka Demarius just Butchering everybody's name at this point in time, because that's what we do. Thank you for being here, sir. Of course, man. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited. And you guys will be surprised how many times Demetrius has been called Demarius in the last, I don't know, five years, well over a dozen times. And also, how many times Caleb Williams has been called Caleb Gilliams. Who knows? Pronounce it in a start. Pronounce it in a start. Austin, you got one of the most basic names. ever. So like Austin and Lance, that's pretty much like as basic as it gets. Amazing. All right. Just because of time, usually you guys get a full hour and a half with us. We talk about a lot of different things. As of late, we've been talking about the infinite banking concept book. But today is not that day. And because of our technical difficulties, we are only going to have about 45 or so minutes together. So I know some of you are like thank goodness which If that is you, hey, you're welcome. And with all that being said, today, we are going to talk about the most sexy thing on the planet. My what? No, I'm just kidding. Which is true, which is true. But what I meant, what I was going to say is life insurance is what I've always done, what I've always talked about. And so with that being said, today, we are not going to talk about the book. We are going to talk about policy loans. Everybody's favorite subject, because that really is what really life insurance overfunded. The concept that we essentially coined the end asset really is about is utilization of it while you're alive, not just having it just for the death benefit, which is also a very powerful piece from the legacy perspective. The living benefits, the cash value is something that helps us show up more intentionally. And so with that being said, what we want to do today. is I'm sure there's some of you that are out there that are trying to figure out if you have a policy, do you want a policy? But if specifically, how should I utilize my policy? When should I utilize it? Some examples, different asset classes. And so with that being said, I'd love to start with you, Mr. Austin Williams. What in your mind is a couple tangible ways that people should look at and consider taking a policy loan? when it comes to using it for these and assets specifically? Great question. So figuring out whether or not it's a smart idea to take a policy loan, obviously you have to have enough liquidity in order to do so. So do you actually have a big enough cash value in order to do so? But that's obviously the first easiest thing to determine. But secondly, is like Like, is it the smartest thing? So maybe you do have enough cash value, but is it a smart thing to do? And what I generally walk people through is that one of the first things to kind of think about is whatever you are wanting to put this money to, you're taking it out of a very safe environment and you are introducing it to a little bit of risk, which is not a bad thing if it's being done for the right reasons. And then however you are introducing those dollars to risk. Is it risk that you have specialized knowledge of or experience in? And if you do, then there is a better chance that that will be a wiser way to introduce risk-stated dollars than something that you are totally new and green to. So those are kind of the first two things that I usually walk through with my clients. Can I touch on that real quick? Because like I've heard and you guys can push back with this if you want to. But I've even heard like in some cases, if you have a specialized knowledge in something and not only the specialized knowledge, but also the experience for the particular thing. I'm not going to say it removes your risk. So like I'm agreeing with you. But the slight the slight tangent of a disagreement would be that like the more risk and the more experience you have with something, the less risky it becomes because you've done it before, perhaps. But that's just like food for thought for quite frankly. But overall, I would say I agree with you with a slight tangent. I guess I agree with your agreement with me because it feels like we're saying the same thing. I don't see the disagreement. The disagreement was Austin said you're barring against your policy and you're putting it into something risky. And I would say that if you are putting something, putting money into something that, you know, really well, the risk is really low, if not gone. If you really know it really well. But he. Austin, you made it seem like no matter what you put it into outside of a policy, it's going to be risky. And it seems very black and white. Okay. It depends on the person. I guess the environment, what I said, is going to be more risky than the current environment is inside the cash value invested into whatever the portfolio that the insurance carrier is invested into, which is an incredibly safe, non-volatile portfolio. Yeah, I guess. where I was coming from is like the investor is it's like, that's kind of the most important piece outside of just like the investment that you're putting it into. But yeah, but again, tomato, tomato, we're good. That's right. That's right. Maybe it's maybe Demarius disagreed with me, but we're like, we're, we're just speaking the same. Okay. Okay. Let's go. You guys, you guys woke up together. I don't have the same exact t-shirts because you want to be, I know. Like you're like, like Austin, you're, you're arguing with Demarius. Like he's your, your adopted brother or something. That's right. That's right. You might argue, but we'll be related. That's right. I love it. I love it. All right. Amazing. So Austin, you talked about the framework, right? First we discuss, are you educated in the thing you want to borrow for? And then let's say they have enough liquidity. They're educated. What's kind of the next piece to it? Yeah. Next step is, okay, so you have a specialized knowledge experience. You have enough cash value. Is whatever you want to invest into going to earn a greater rate of return than whatever the cost to finance the loan is going to be? So as we all know who are talking here, like you who are listening, is that these loans are not free. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and that's especially true with life insurance. is that they're going to give you a loan for the cash value of this policy, or whatever amount of the cash value that you want, except it's not for free. There's a finance charge on that loan. And every carrier does that finance charge a little bit differently. Some carriers do a static charge. Some do a charge that is going to be different year to year. But ultimately, there's going to be a cost to finance those dollars. And let's say that's just to make it really easy. You know, let's say 6%. is that Is this income producing activity that you're invested into going to have a greater rate of return than the 6% finance charge alone? If yes, then it might be a smart decision. If no, probably won't be a good decision unless there's some very specific reason why you want to do it. So that'd be the next step. Amazing. Demetrius, do you agree with that framework? Yes, more or less. Yeah. So I'll tell you what I was thinking about as you were talking, Austin, is like. how quickly are you going to get the return as well? And then like, are you okay not being able to utilize that those dollars for something else during that season? And so the way I'm thinking of it is like, whatever you're investing in, is it producing some sort of a smaller amount of cash flow? Or is it that you're taking that full amount, you're going to flip that money pretty quickly? In other words, let's say if someone has $100,000 of a loan, it's like, are they going to You're earning 20 grand a year off of that, 20% a year off of that. Or. Is it going to be they turn that 100 grand into 120 grand within like one year or one time frame? Right. Yeah. So that's a different way of looking at it. It also changes how you go about paying back the loan over time as well. One takes a little bit more intentionality in, I'll call it, if you will. But neither is right or wrong. It's just that that's what came to my mind immediately. Yeah. Investments are different across the board. And I would say you could speak to a lot of the whole like, you know. amount of time it can take to get investments back, giving a real estate background, couldn't you? Real estate. I've used policy for crypto. I've used my policy for a few different things now. I've had it. for I think seven years at this point in time. So it's been fun to be actually utilization of it versus just being someone who talks about it. And so what I would love to do is, one, I'll talk a little bit more about some of that, some of the things I've used it for, how I've used it. But I'd love to just list off a couple of different assets. And then on a scale of one to 10, you decided the game you're gonna have to play, what would you rate of like 10 borrow for sure? One, would not borrow at all for it. And let's just say maybe try to think maybe universal, okay? Because I know that you guys specifically will be different than like, you know, try to give most people that are listening a framework of like, oh, that's a decent idea or not a decent idea. And then we'll start talking about some examples of maybe some of these asset classes or maybe get into specific real life scenarios that can give maybe a better framework. So right now it's going to... be somewhat black and white because there's always going to be some gray as we are asking clients questions and we start asking people questions, but we'll just go ahead and start there. So we're going to start and you each will go, we'll go Demetrius, Austin, Demetrius, Austin. So Demetrius, you're going to likely always go first. So Austin, try not to be too influenced. All right. On a scale of one to 10, 10 is like a hundred percent would use it for it. Right. And if you want to give a one line justification, one to two at most, okay. Don't go on a crazy, put, you know, put the fries in the bag in this example. Right. We got to make it crispy, make it clean. All right. Tell me maybe why, okay, you would give it the rating that you did as well. Okay. So we're going to start with everybody's favorite topic, real estate. I'm going to go five on that one. This is personally, and I'm going to say this just because of my own, my personal knowledgeability of investing in real estate and knowing that it's one of those like super quote unquote, sexy investments that everybody wants to get into, but not enough people know enough about. And so that's why I would say that short justification. There's so much more I want to say, but amazing, amazing. Austin, we'll come back to that. I'm going to, I'll even undercut Demetrius. I just, I'd say I personally put myself at a three or four because I just don't know enough to be dangerous when it comes to real estate. I know So that... Real estate has made more millionaires, or at least that's what's been repeated around. I haven't done research to that effect, but it's made more millionaires than any sort of other asset class kind of in history. So it's obviously a very valuable thing. And I think there's a majority of the people, I would even say, who do utilize policy loans that are our clients are going to do so in service of getting, like enlarging their real estate portfolio and being able to do that. But personally, I just don't know enough about it. And I could even say that sometimes. um, maybe most times in recent history. Oh, actually, you know what? I'm going to stop because you asked one line and I went, appreciate you putting the fries in the bag. I appreciate you. People are like, all right, I want to hear the next, next class. I want to, yeah. Yeah. All right. Uh, the stock market one, they're so, they're so separate. Um, and unless you are an incredible Options trader and that's just the background that you have and you're studied up You know, you're probably gonna be in a worse off position potentially. Yeah. Yeah, I would I would even go lower than Demetri Oh, I know I can't go lower. I'm gonna say one two because Ultimately if I really wanted to have this extra level of risk because ultimately when you invest in stocks You have extra extra risk and if I wanted to extra risk, I have an IUL and I personally would not want to have an IUL. So why would I introduce my cash value to that kind of volatility inside a whole life product? This is tough, Dom, because it's like, we, we, we gotta be quick with the reason. And at the same time, just like, just like Austin, I'm inclined to want to give more like background to what I'm saying, but it is what it is. Like, let's play the game. Yeah, we got 30, we got 34 minutes. I plan on winning. I didn't know there was like a game, like a prize at the end. All right. Let's go bonds. One. Well, hold on. Depending on depending on the yield you're getting. I'm just going to I'm going to say I'm going to say two. And I'm actually not even going to give justification for that unless you really want me to give one. No, I have lost. I have so many questions now after hearing your guys's numbers. I would also do a one for bonds just because why would I as an individual get bonds? And this is a great plug for us to link to the video we just posted with Tom Wall, who just gave a great breakdown on why whole life is such an attractive way, the attractive savings tool in comparison to bonds, is that why would I as an individual invest in bonds when I can't even get the prices that these big, the carrier gets different prices on bonds than I can as an individual. And they hold bonds. all the way to the point of maturity, right? So it wouldn't make any sense for me to personally invest in bonds when I could have somebody who does it way better than me and has that as their whole portfolio do it or a large part of the portfolio. And I have to throw this out there. Most people who are watching this, if they're going to be investing in bonds, normally we're thinking bond funds. And I think people kind of conflate just an individual bond versus a bond fund, which they're not necessarily one in the same. Yep. And I also want to remember, we're not talking about or, we're talking about and, when you would borrow against to put it into the thing, right? So I just want to make sure we're super aligned. All right. So we got that. Let's talk about a credit card. Hey, it's Demetrius. Just wanted to pause the video real quick and let you know about our education hub that we call The Vault. Because the reality is most people have no idea how to evaluate whole life insurance. And so The Vault is a collection of all of our best resources and educational tools to help break it all down. So there's a calculator, a handbook, a crash course. course and deep dive videos on all of the numbers. You have all of that in one place in all for free. So go ahead and click the link in the description or the tag comment below to unlock your access to the vault. Now back to the video. I'm going to say if you have the liquidity already anyway, and for whatever reason you're in debt, I'm going to go up to like an eight because you're exchanging a higher interest rate for a lower interest rate, but then you have to incorporate the discipline to then create new habits. Yeah, I would if I were in had put my family in a position of Getting you know massive credit card debt that has you know 20% you know interest rate on it You know 6% is way better than 20% I mean that just that's just arbitrage That's just that's just a no-brainer. So that's like a 10 out of 10 for me Obviously, I would never want to put my family in that situation but just getting a better interest rate is good. However, like Demetrius said, you have to come up with some better routines and just some, some better money managing skills that you don't get back into that hole again. Amazing. We got two more and then we'll wrap it up. A vacation. Ooh, I'm actually going to say like a seven on this one because depending on what the vacation is, I'm not going to say what the vacation is for, but It's all about what you value when it comes to something like a vacation. Like, is that vacation going to put dollars right back in your pocket? Probably not. And at the same time, if you care about the compounding of dollars, even when you utilize those dollars, I mean, why not utilize a policy loan for that too? Also depends on the season of life, but I'm going to stop there because I'm not going to specify. I'm going to pick it up right where Demetrius left off because where I was going with that. So right now in this season of life, when I'm in the accumulation phase, thinking about you know retirement planning you know some people have different you know opinions on that on whether you should retire or not but in an accumulation phase it would be very low like a two or three because ultimately that compound interest will grow if i if i do not end up paying that off um and now if i'm wait later and i'm in the kind of the distribution phase of my retirement planning and it's just a lifestyle of choice i just want to make memories with my family and my kids and my grandkids it'd be like a seven or eight or seven or an eight because once again Now this is the point when I'm not so worried about the compound interest because I'm more focused on using the policy, what I've accrued so far for the living benefits. Amazing. Okay, last. Actually, I have to say this one because everybody wants to know, and then I'll do the last one, is a car. I'm going to go, let's just go with six for that one just because of like, you could probably, no, I'm actually going to go eight. Just because of the fact that if you have more, if you have the liquidity within your policy anyway, you can probably get better terms by paying for the car in cash and then paying that policy loan back over time. I think that's just a more efficient way to do it in many instances, not every case. Yeah. With fear of offending some of the Nelson Nash purists out there, I would say like a three or four, just because when I got when I got. bought our car about was that four years ago now um the rates were uh i think it was 4.75 and uh personally you know there's a one way to look at infinite banking where i should have still taken a policy loan and then i should have still charged myself you know the above whatever the cost of the policy loan was above what the cost of the that i caught that i took to finance the the car for through the um just through the bank that I should have done that and added that back to my personal bank. So I get it. I understand. But personally, at the time, it was just good to get the lowest rate possible. So I opted just to get the lower rate rather than using it to finance it through a policy. Amazing. All right. Last one. Business. Oh, my gosh. I'm going to say a nine on this one. It's hard for me to give anything a 10. And I'm going to say a nine because who not for the right person. If you get into business, that probably means you understand the product or service you do pretty well. So then it's just a matter of hiring the right people or learning marketing well enough in order to get in front of the right people. So you can make you can you can recoup those costs and profit. In a more reasonable fashion than maybe some other more speculative investments, which again business can be speculative in and of itself But you're investing in yourself best investing your future and other people that you're serving I'd say this one aligns much more closely with like the kind of value that I want to add to the world is that like Some of the other asset classes you mentioned Demetrius is like especially with stocks. It's like, you know, if you do if you do calls or or whatnot and you like Are you actually adding value to anything or are you just betting against something? Right. But like if we're talking about a business that you like, you like their mission, you like what they want to add to the world and you just want to support that. I love it. So like that's like a 10 out of 10 for me. If I find a business that I want to support, that I see they have strong financials, they like what they're doing, that I want to support, like that'd be like a 10 out of 10 for me because I want to actually add value to my community and to the world at large. I feel like this is a personality assessment, Dom. Like you did this on purpose to see what we would say as our personality. I don't know. So anyways, you go for it. No. So to me, it sounds like Austin, if I had to recap, you wouldn't put your money in anything from barring against in for majority of scenarios, except business. Like everything you gave was pretty low unless somebody, unless you had like high credit card debt. Yeah. Or unless I was in the distribution phase of retirement planning for a vacation, then it'd be like, okay, yeah, like that, that makes sense. And Demetrius, it sounds like for you, a lot of the came down to, it depends. for a lot of the scenarios. Yeah, that's probably right. Yes, for sure. Okay, so what I think this did a good job of showing everybody is that there is no one black or white answer for should you or should you not take a policy loan. I think the framework that we came up with to be able to justify mathematically should you or should you not is what Austin said at the beginning. Should you borrow from your life insurance policy, make sure that it's greater on the other end of that. And you mentioned- Both of you mentioned when it comes to the credit card debts, like the credit cards usually higher. So that's a great example of I'm instantly getting that back to my quote unquote house of the economy by paying that off, so on and so forth. Now, that's the great part about what you work with us and you work with somebody who actually understands this concept is if you get a policy loan and you get a policy in general, we can sit down and ask you the questions. What do you want out of life? What are you trying to accomplish? Where are you trying to go? because like Austin said, depending on his season of life. If he's later on in retirement, if he's not, he may change it up just slightly. And so from knowing this, what is the thing that you guys have that is so much more greater in business? Like why specifically in business is that so much more attractive to you guys? Knowing that in theory, it's not your guys' even main source of income at this point in time, right? Giving it a 10 or a nine, right? But some people's full-time business is real estate and you guys gave it a three and a five. So I would want to hear the justification around the low numbers, real estate and the high numbers over there. And maybe think personally and universally, because, you know, I'm a huge, like if I were to have given this, I would have not given it a three or five personally for real I would have given a lot higher like eight or nine probably So I just I'm more curious on that end of like, why do you guys get it so low outside of maybe you guys aren't skilled in it relative to maybe what some other people are? Maybe that is a justification. But, you know, I tried to say at the beginning, a frame it of how do we how do we attack this from the most amount of people that are hearing at the same time? Yeah, I mean, universally speaking, I think a lot of people want like a quick buck. And it's not like trying to, you know, be rude to the masses, if you will. but you just hear a lot of stories that end up bad or end up just like in a sad ending from a standpoint of, I thought it was going to produce X, Y, Z. Like I, I know a client, well, incredibly sweet gal, um, who had gotten to a real estate deal. It was supposed to pay out two years ago, still has not paid out and probably heading towards like a class action lawsuit. And it's not that like things like that, people are like, some people are in the camp of, you know what, that's never going to happen to me. I'm going to do my homework, which is, I mean, that's great. And some people are in the camp of I'm never going to get into real estate whatsoever because that's going to happen to me. And so that's kind of like the two ends of the spectrum with how I see it. But I think it's hard. What's the difference in your mind for somebody like that versus in business? Somebody starts a business, they do it for a year and then it flaps and everything goes under and they use their money for a business. Yeah, there's more control typically that people have if they start a business than if they put money into a particular real estate deal. But I guess it depends on what type of real estate you're investing in. Because I'll say the one that's probably the most risky because you can't really understand it that well unless you know how to understand it. you know, the right questions to ask would be things like syndications. I think they like the sickest type of real estate deal out there if you get into the right one. But when it comes to, you know, flips and all that, maybe that's maybe I'd give that a higher number if you have the liquidity simply because you can go get the raw materials to go flip a house and it's right there in front of you. But if your syndication is a hundred and a thousand miles away, that could be a little harder. So the idea of a syndication is you give your money to an expert. If you're starting a fix and flip business, you're starting with control, but you're not the expert. So you're actually beginning conversation, creating more risk based off of actual understanding of the actual investment. So to me, doing fix and flip is actually more risky than it would be if you gave your money to a syndicator who actually was skillful in what they do. Yeah, I agree with you. And it goes back to the point from earlier of like, did you do did you know how to do the due diligence? because if you know how to do the due diligence to know it. how legit is this person who's the real estate expert, then you're probably in a good company. But if you're just like, you know, I gave my money to this person. I think they're going to flip the money some way, somehow. But you're like, I have no idea their background. I don't know what they've done in the past. I don't know how they qualify for this. Then they could be there. I don't know. I hate to use the word, but like scamming. And that happens in the world as much as I hate to say it. So it just boils down to the due diligence at the front end. Okay. So if somebody does their due diligence. Really, that's the person does the syndication. They don't have control of the outcome in theory. Right. Versus you have massive control of the outcome of fix and flip. Right. But you're just starting now, which which is better. So you're saying you got control versus you got the right person with the syndication. I'll probably rank it the same. I'd probably say like seven or eight if that were the case. Just because. Yeah. Yeah. Because. Because with the fix and flip, you still have to do your due diligence there too, right? Yeah. What type of house are you getting? Is the foundation slip kind of falling under beneath you? Are you being conservative with your estimations, right? Or are you kind of seeing things through rose colored glasses, right? How realistic are you being? So I'm saying that as if I'm a real estate investor and I'm not, but I've heard enough stories. I've been around enough people who are. Amazing. For every... I think what Demetrius is saying, for every one story you hear of like the get rich, there's also the other 10 of the people that fall and go under that essentially fail, right? And we've heard of a lot of people that are in Ponzi schemes or people that give a ton of money, lose it all. And it comes down to the, I think, the framework that Austin and Demetrius are talking about of risk when we're looking at should you take a policy loan or not, because we have seen people borrow. put money into a policy, borrow everything. The policy, the investment goes under. Now you have a max policy loan on your life insurance policy and you're in a worse position than you would have been if you never started the policy in the first place. Right. So I do think that there is, there is that, that piece of it that is important to, to factor as we're looking, should you, or should you not take a policy loan for it? Austin, do you agree with the things or anything that you want to add? If not, like that's like profound, if not. I want to pivot and ask a different question. Maybe one last low key profound thing that I wanted to add to that is that I think when it comes to real estate, you know, there are people in, you know, 2007 that were doing all the right things in real estate. And then in 2008, even though they were still doing all the right things, they were left holding a bunch of notes that the banks came asking for and right. And they went under. So the overall environment, I think also the financial environment that we're wading into also really matters is that like, you know, right now. I'm just you just personally seen some of the things that I've seen that have been happening at a national at a national level When it comes to politics and the economy is it makes me a little bit more hesitant to want to get Into something and introduce a lot more risk to my money So if you feel confident though that you've been through storms like this and that you feel confident in your real estate ability You could weather it then great, but I also think you need to kind of take into account the overall financial environment and whether it'd be smarter to put it all into real estate or maybe put it all into a different asset class but you could probably argue the people didn't actually do the due diligence even if they were quote unquote doing the right things back in 2008 if they were buying a junk loan that essentially could balloon at any point in time, which essentially did. And then people's cashflow was way higher from an expense than they could actually afford to keep the, keep their easy back in on easy mode. So, so the, the overall thing that we're getting at in my mind, when it comes to investing was actually based off of fear and greed. And I think those are the. human emotions that actually screw people over in a lot of ways versus having a very unemotional attachment to the thing that they're looking at and looking at it objectively based off of the numbers, the experience, the people they're working with and identifying, is this a good thing to do or not? And the due diligence that Demetrius was talking about is probably the one of the most important things to making sure that you're making a good decision on should you or should you not. borrow to be able to do for an activity outside of your life insurance policy. Would you guys agree with that? I agree with that. And I'll even add a little bit of a little bit of a piece here. It's like people from a psychology perspective, they do make decisions. We do make decisions emotionally first and that we potentially justify with logic. And I think to separate yourself even from that and just acknowledging that that's how you typically make decisions, try it with stuff like this. I mean, perhaps go straight to the logical. if it's possible and take your emotions out of it perhaps amazing all right well what if i'm somebody like let's just say myself who really loves loves crypto i have liquidity um i really want to invest in the crypto like i just really want to and i'm i don't have a policy in theory right and i'm coming to you guys and say hey i want to should i get a life insurance policy or not you're telling me that the i'm gonna put crypto in the stock stock bucket because you guys gave it a ones, right? So because of that, are you saying that now I should no longer get a policy because I should not put my money in theory, borrow against to put it into something like crypto and I should just take my money and put it in crypto and not get a policy then? Is that kind of what I'm hearing you guys say based off of writing it once for both of you? It's not. Go ahead, Austin. I thought you were going to say something. Just slide. Well, I've had plenty of people I've talked to that are that are really, really cozy enough to the idea of crypto and they love that as an asset class. And what I would generally work with them is that I think that life insurance is a great complement to crypto because, once again, life insurance is an anti-volatile asset that behaves very predictably and consistently. And crypto is this relatively unproven asset. That has had some amazing gains ever since, you know, 2000 was a 2008 or so whenever it first whenever Bitcoin like kind of first entered the scene. And but we only really have 17 years worth of data. And that's a pretty new asset class as far as asset classes go. So, you know, I think it's a great compliment. Now, do you want to actually take your life insurance policy and use it to invest in Bitcoin? If you consider yourself a crypto expert, which, you know, at this point, you know, crypto experts are kind of like, I guess if you call yourself a crypto expert, you are because it's so new. But, you know, you're introducing a lot of risk to a product that is not risky. And to say that there is no risk or that you are totally confident in it, like it takes a little bit of hubris, I think, to do that, because ultimately nobody knows where crypto is going. And it's been good so far. We don't know where it is in the future. So So, you know, I think it'd be great as a complimentary place to put your money to life insurance. But as far as using the policy to invest in crypto, you know, that that's making a not risky product, product a lot more risky. And I don't know if that would actually line up with what the client wants. Makes the product risky just because you bought against it and put it into something that is risky. Like if life insurance is not risky, as you say, and I agree with you, how does putting money. How does borrowing against it and putting it into something risky make the product life insurance risky? Yeah, because if you want the life, and this is what I lead people through, and I make sure every single call that I come to, I've underlined with bold underlines many times. It's like the purpose of life insurance, first and foremost, is to put the correct value on your life. You have to come to grips with the fact that when you get a life insurance product, you're not just getting a liquid savings tool. you can borrow against. Like you're getting this, this way and you're putting this value on your life. That's going to take care of the people or organizations that you love. if you are no longer here to support them. And that is going to be more difficult or is going to be less assured if you put your cash value and borrow against it and put it into something that's unproven and that we don't really know what's going to do with it. Is that you might be doing well on the investment side of things, but the original purpose that what life insurance exists to do is a little bit less certain now. And I don't, and I want people to know is that like, if you come and you want to get life insurance is like, you, you have to have, you have to realize the value inherent in your life and the, and the need to, to make sure to cover as much risk related to that for as long as possible for the people or organizations. Austin, wouldn't you say though, that business is the same uncertainty that the asset class that we're talking about is because 90% of businesses fail in the first five years. We don't know if better wealth is going to sustain itself. That's the exciting part about business is you move towards a mission and you collectively work together to something that you have no idea if it's going to work out or not. And a lot of the time for most people, it doesn't. Yeah. And I think this circles back to how do you want to add value into the world? if you are totally content with, you know, I'm making my money like from crypto and I'm doing, you know, calls on stocks and whatnot and what, and everything like, and that's the way that you want to add value to the world, then that aligns with your values. But if you want to add value to the world in a way where, you know, you're investing in a person or a business and yes, you know, maybe it has, uh, maybe the returns won't be as great, but you feel like you're actually adding something to the world. I think that that psychological benefit is. kind of worth the difference. Dom, can I ask you a question? Of course. We were talking about real estate for a while and we narrowed it down to the framework of the due diligence. When you ask the question about crypto or we pivoted over to stocks or we pivoted over to whatever business, what makes the question any different? Would the framework change in your mind depending on the investment when you look at it from a universal standpoint, through a universal lens? No, I think that it's exactly the same of starting with the end in mind, what you want out of life, then identifying your skillset, identifying where's the least amount of risk for the most amount of gain, and then deploying that with somewhat certainty that the outcome that you plan for yourself is going to get you to the goal that you want. And that every asset class is going to be different, just like whole life in IUL and VUL will be different. And so there's not one right answer for anybody, but the framework and idea around it, I think is pretty universally sound if you follow it in the T. Yeah, 100%. If you're a high income earner or own a successful business, you're already creating real value in the world. The real question is, are you keeping that money, protecting it, and growing it the way that actually supports your long-term goals? At Better Wealth, we help people like you better keep protect and grow their wealth through various tax strategies, estate planning, especially design life insurance, retirement planning, and even a fractional family office service. If you're interested in one or more of the areas we can serve and want to learn more, the next step is to book a free clarity call with us. Click the link in the description or tag comment below to get started. Back to the video. All right, we got 10 minutes or so. Okay, So what I'll just say about the whole. stock market and crypto and real estate outside of the framework, right? I think when people are looking at the idea of taking a policy loan and they're deciding what they should use it for, I think that there is tremendous value in the opportunity of just having liquidity for quote unquote a day that may present itself. And what I mean by that is there are going to be incredible opportunities if you have money. If you have liquidity, that'll just naturally show up. And I think that even in the infinite banking concept, the book we're talking about, it says, the one who has capital, amazingly, opportunities just present themselves. And I believe that if you actually had money sitting on the side in 2008, buying real estate or buying a stock that you knew was on massive discount that you then purchased to then allow to appreciate and then resell at a future date, it would have been absolutely phenomenal. And that's what most people, most people do the opposite. They're buying when everybody else is emotionally in greed mode. So like when crypto is up and it's soaring, people then start talking about it and they talk it to their friends. And so they get into it and they buy at the peak. Because they're just emotionally like, I'm going to miss out. I'm going to just gain so much. I'm going to a thousand X. It's the same thing back then in 2008, everybody's buying real estate. Loans are easy. It's just like, it's the greatest, sexiest thing on the thing to buy. So everybody's doing it. But likely when everybody's doing it and majority of the masses are doing that thing is when you're getting into the largest bubble, regardless of the asset class. But that's why Warren Buffett, he chooses when most people are greedy for him to get fearful. For him to then go in cash and for him to wait. And then when he can wait and he can present another opportunity, that becomes 60, 70, 80% on discount. Because that's what happens is some of these proven businesses that have been around for a long period of time will go on discount 70, 80%. Proven asset class real estate will go on for 70, 60% on short sales, etc. Buy them up, appreciate, creates massive wealth and massive opportunity. And that's where I think the due diligence, that's why I think the expertise, the skill set comes in. Because if you're trying to do a fix and flip in an environment where interest rates are high, asset prices are high, it doesn't matter how skillful you are. You probably aren't going to be able to find a great opportunity by just forcing yourself to go take advantage and force yourself to go take an opportunity just because you're like, I have money. So the wealthiest individuals, they actually create emotional intelligence. They have wisdom. They have stoicism. and they know when to take advantage. I've heard you, Austin, and I've heard Caleb say this many times as well, and I could get on board to some degree, that you say investing in a business creates a ton of value, and that's where you want to invest your money. Great. I always think that we should invest our money where our heart's at and our value's at, so on and so forth. The money that you make, if you're making from option stocks, you can create income, so they'll go then put it into other things you value. So we could just surely look at that from a difference in where do I put all the money and just increasing economic value to then go, create more value in other places, so on and so forth. There are plenty of people that do a business that it's just fraud. There's currently people that do business that it has no true value to it and doesn't actually create real opportunity at the end of the day. They just do it to make a buck. So I don't see it as any different, but I do see, you know, real businesses, real value, putting time and energy into that can create real impact as an amazing place that people should put their money into if they truly value that cause. I do on the other end, believe that option trading stock market, crypto, whatever it is, Forex trading. If you do it well and you become skillful enough at it and understand it, it is one of the most difficult things on the entire planet to do well and actually make money doing, which creates an amazing human being internally from the things that I talked about of stoicism, knowing oneself, fear, emotional control, and those all things carry over into other places of your life. you develop an amazing character by being able to have self-control. And that's what in Galatians talks about is like the Holy Spirit. It creates peace. It creates kindness. It creates love. But the very end, self-control. And so by doing those things, if you do them well, betting, right? I actually think it's probabilities as well. You're learning a unique skill set, just like you were in business that can then eventually create more value from who you are to then more value to the world. more income to yourself to more value than to the world. And so I'm not a huge stickler. I'm just talking about like we, in the world of life insurance, a lot of times people are like clowning on IUL or VUL or even whole life. I'm not in the camp of clowning on any asset class within life insurance. And I'm still also not in the same bucket of clowning quote unquote on any asset class period. It all comes down to the framework we're talking about is, do you understand it? Can you assess the risk? Do you have the liquidity? Is it the right thing for you and your family? Will it add value to the thing that you're trying to accomplish in life? If the answer is yes, then go for it. So with all that being said, that's the last thing that I wanted to say with a lot of this. You only have four minutes left. Is there anything else that you guys want to add before we hop off to the conversation? Yeah, I'll add something real quick. It's like, if we're talking about any form of life insurance, let's just say whole life insurance as an example, and you're wanting to go make investments or whatever. Your your policy is only as good as your ability to fund the daggone thing. Right. Because those dollars would have been going elsewhere, which could have been stacked up in a bank account or whatever. And so they're going into your policy. So there's nothing I mean, you're getting lots of benefits, but life insurance. But like the value you create to then create cash flow to then put dollars into the policy. Those three steps right there, I would argue, are like so much more. important and all the cool stuff that can be done with leverage and borrowing against policies and all of that because if the cash flow isn't there to save in the first place like we we can't even have this conversation Right. Or at least like people who can't create value won't be a part of it, if that makes sense. No, that's good. Actually, then is a good question for Austin is do you think that people that have high interest credit card debt should put their money into a policy and then borrow against and use it for the credit cards? Because that was something that you said that you would use it for. I know people are asking that all the time. Should I should I do that? We understand that if you have the control and liquidity in the policy already and then you go spend credit cards, it's probably better to go pay that off. But if you're like starting and you don't have a policy yet. Does it make sense to do so? Great question. The short answer is if this person who has the high interest credit card also believes that their life is valuable and they were trying to put the correct value on their life because they have people who depend on them in some way, shape or form, then it's two birds with one stone. Right. Like that makes sense to that. Why would you just pay off your credit card if you have the liquidity to do so when you could start a policy and put the correct value on your life? and pay off your credit card at a lower percent interest rate. So if their goals are larger than simply paying down the amount of money that they owe, and they also want to put the right value in their life, then I'd say yes. Amazing. That's why I love Austin Williams, because he truly puts emphasis on the death benefit and understands the real value behind it. And I actually would be curious if You know, you talked to Tom Wall and he always talks about it being an amazing bond alternative. Would it still be a good bond alternative without the death benefit? I mean, I would be curious to know his perspective. You know, that's that's a conversation for another day. And I'm sure in the comments, you know, I would be curious, you guys, if you guys have thoughts on would any of would any of this stuff be good? Right. Using a policy barring against having the policy if there was no death benefit attached to it. Would it still be would it still be a valid? a valid asset class to have. I'm curious what everybody thinks, but we only have one minute left. And so we are going to wrap this up. If you want to talk to somebody on the team about getting the life insurance policy, you want to talk to Demetrius, you want to talk to Austin, you want to talk to amazing individuals who care about you, who have a heart to serve. We are more than happy to do so. If anything, just a quick conversation to be able to ask questions, get to know a little bit about you is just where we want to be at. And so with that being said Everybody have an amazing day. Thanks again for spending the 45, 50 minutes taking to watch three guys just talk about life insurance. And until next time. Until next time. You guys. See ya.
.svg){kind=logo}
