Jamie, welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. I am excited to talk about a topic that could be very taboo. I remember when I first learned about life settlements, kind of being not sure how I felt about it. And then the more I thought about just life settlements in general, it made me more convinced and dedicated to what we do. Because a lot of times when we talk about life insurance being an asset, especially the death benefit, Sometimes that can be... feel wishy-washy. Sometimes it can be like, okay, I don't know exactly how I think about that, but the reality is there are marketplaces, there are people out there that literally buy and sell and help other people as it relates to buy and sell people's death benefit. And you're going to help us just understand what that looks like, the ins and outs of life settlements. And I will say, you may be watching this and you may decide like, this is something that I want to look into. This is going to be an amazing training and I'm grateful that you've made time to break down life settlements and hopefully simplify the message. Oh, it's a pleasure and I look forward to it. Over the next 20 minutes or so, my goal is for the listeners to really have a good understanding of what a life settlement is, recognizing their life insurance as an asset that they own. Because I think to your point, the value of a life insurance policy isn't just the death benefit, but also its assignability. I'm happy to get started if you're ready for me. Let's dive in. Okay. So I think what you said and how we started is a great place to start. Recognizing for policy owners and helping them to recognize that their life insurance is an asset, is a piece of property that they own. And just like other property, it's important that it's managed. So when you think about life insurance, it's really a buy and manage asset, not a buy and hold asset. So for those of you that maybe purchased life insurance or you sold life insurance a decade, two decades, even three decades ago, make sure you're looking at it. You know, if you haven't run in illustrations lately, if you haven't paid attention to what the future premiums look like, it's important to manage that existing coverage. A lot of times when clients think about life insurance, they really just think about it for its death benefit. So when they have different financial transitions, maybe the sale of a business, maybe their spouse predeceases them, maybe they're in a position where they've lived so long, they've gifted out all of their wealth, and they're looking at the life insurance and saying, you know, do I still need this? You know, do I need to keep paying the premium? Think about some of these different financial transitions, you know, those of you that are watching or Caleb, for you in your own planning and business practices. where life insurance is usually part of the conversation. Throughout the conversation today in this presentation, we're going to try and give you a few case studies and examples to help you understand when the sale of an existing life insurance policy could create additional value for you and for your policy owners. When we talk about life insurance and the importance of managing it. For those of you that own policies, you might be asking these questions. Do I still need it? Would I buy it today? We've seen in our practice, almost weekly, clients that are receiving a premium notice from the carrier, and they're looking at it and saying, wow, I didn't know that my life insurance premiums, that check that you have to write every year, maybe every month, maybe even every quarter, depending on how you have it set up, that those... premiums could increase over time. And what we're seeing in today's society, globally as well, is that people are living longer. Right now in the US, there's 100,000 people over the age of 100. By 2045, with the baby boomer generation, that number is expected to grow to over 700,000. So for those of you that are actually working with clients that have life insurance, If they bought those policies... 10, 20, 30 years ago and are now in their late 70s, 80s, or even 90s, they may look at the life insurance and not realize that the premiums could be increasing. Yeah, and Jamie, I do want to just clarify something that I think would be, it would just be good to hear from you as well. A lot of times people might be watching this and they're like, okay, like we do a lot of max funded whole life insurance mainly, and we're, and we're, a lot of our clients understand. how it's being used and we're structuring it to be very highly cash value and flexible. And while you could very much sell that policy through life settlement, and we will talk about that in a second, I would imagine that those type of policies are actually not being sold as much as maybe like policies that maybe weren't designed that way. lot more that you buy probably are universal life policies. That's right. And they're underfunded. So I just I want to point out because someone could be like, hey, like, I know that some like Caleb talks about life insurance being an amazing asset in retirement. And the reality is, yes, when set up and used properly, but it also can be an asset that's not funded properly could be a tough, tough thing, especially for cash flow. And so everyone's in a different scenario. But a lot of people don't have life insurance set up this way. And as a result, they're thinking about potentially canceling it because it's such a burden on them. That's right. And I think it's a great point because I think something that I should have mentioned when we got started, if you own existing life insurance or you own life insurance and you like it, you need it, you want it, and you can afford it, you should keep it. Through the discussion today, we're going to talk about life insurance policies that are no longer needed. They're not serving the purpose for which they were put in place. And clients are looking for an alternative to just surrender or lapse. And whole life products are great products. And usually it's a practice tip I say at every meeting that I speak at. The importance of knowing what you're buying, having a diversified portfolio of life insurance, and insuring even children. My dad put whole life policies on all the kids in our family when we were 13. And I'm thankful that he did because I became uninsurable at 22. So the only life insurance that I own because I've got Crohn's disease and it just had ongoing health issues is the insurance, the whole life insurance that my dad put on me at 13 that thankfully had some options to increase the death benefit until I was about 40. So absolutely and I think this slide really illustrates what you just said. Today the majority of policies that are let go that maybe weren't purchased for the purpose of cash accumulation or retirement or helping pay for certain planning needs. Many times the policies that we're seeing in the life settlement market are universal life products or term policies. So for those of you watching this that have universal life policies, 88% of universal life policies never pay a death claim and 85 as high as 95% of term policies never pay a death claim. So very different. Then I think the policies and the planning that you've put in place, Caleb, with many of your clients that have that long-term goal and long-term vision with life insurance really as an accumulation and investment potential vehicle for them. Many times there's policy owners out there that bought it for a specific protection need. It's not building cash. It can be underfunded. and when those needs change. this life settlement option that we're talking about today, when it's a solution, it might be able to create multiple six, even seven figures of liquidity. So thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely. Love this. Yeah. And I probably should have started with this. So I do want to go ahead and really focus everyone's attention on what is a life settlement. So for the next 15 minutes or so, we'll be talking about the life settlement option that all of you have, all of your policy owners have throughout the country. There are institutional buyers, private equity hedge funds and pension funds that will purchase existing life insurance policies. So for those of you, again, whether the policy has been enforced for five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, whatever it might be, For those of you that have those policies before you ever surrender or lapse them, it's important that you know about the life settlement option. A life settlement by definition is the sale of an existing life insurance policy for an amount greater than the surrender value, but less than the death benefit. So the same way you can sell your house, your art, your jewelry in an open market, maybe you're into cars or horses and there's the ability to go to auction. and find buyers for those pieces of property, you can do that with your existing life insurance policies. And when that works, you're talking about an opportunity to create significant liquidity. In 2023, the life settlement market averaged 6.2 times the surrender value for policies that were sold. It created $707 million above the surrender value to policy owners. who made the decision, whose advisors came to them, or they were made aware of this life settlement option, instead of just surrendering their policies, 707 million were created for policy owners that went through the transaction. So I know, Caleb, you and your organization serve nationally. Similarly, we have a national footprint within this sell-side advisory. approach to the life settlement market that we have. 100% of the country allows for the life settlement transaction. So no matter where you live, all of you that are watching this discussion today, you have the opportunity to sell your life insurance policies. Going back to kind of the initial comments that Kayla made, when you think about the policies that will most qualify for this market, although all policy types can be sold in the market. The majority of policies that are actually sold are usually underfunded universal life or convertible term. So non-convertible term and whole life, they have a place in this market. But usually if you have a portfolio of life insurance, if you're a trustee, if you sit on a plan giving board for a charity or on the board of a business, it's usually going to be the universal life policies on insureds over the age of 70 that will be most attractive. to the institutional buyers purchasing those policies today. And when I talk about the institutional buyers purchasing policies, you could really equate that similar to when you think about a real estate portfolio, right? At REIT, you know, that's purchasing real estate and putting it in a portfolio. The private equity hedge funds, pension funds that are buying these life settlements, they're building portfolios, but instead of real estate, It's these life insurance policies that policy owners were going to just discard. So again, this is a, oh, go ahead. Any comments, Caleb? Oh, good. Just agreeing. I like that too during the discussion. So I appreciate it. You know, I will say this is a market that serves all socioeconomic levels. There are buyers for $100,000 face amounts. There's buyers for $10 million, $20 million, $50 million face amounts. So when you think about your clients and how can we add value to their planning? When you as a policy owner look at your insurance and you're saying, do I still want this? Would I buy it today? Realize the market will buy mostly universal life products, all face amounts, and usually on retirement age insureds. There's exceptions to all of that. I think we recently sold a policy on a female in her mid-40s that had significant health issues. But in general, most of the buyers buying today Only have about a 15 year time horizon for this asset class. So that really means insured usually 70 plus maybe mid 70s and older if they're healthy Yeah, that's a very corporate way of saying they would like to get paid out in 15 years or less which requires The person selling to die or or as you guys call it mature so I mean it's a ethically, that's how you have you ever had anyone struggle with that or Because I know that everybody's better off in this transaction. So it's not like they're given a hit list or something and all. But it definitely is kind of an interesting deal because as an institutional investor, you get paid out when there's maturities, which is another way of saying deaths. Right. So what's interesting is I always like to say that the life settlement underwriting or the way that it reviews medical histories, is actually much more optimistic than say how the carriers underwrite medical histories and rating class. So from a carrier perspective, I'm uninsurable. I mentioned that earlier because they think I'm a bad risk. Mortality wise, I have acute events, I'm on tier three drugs, so I'm a bad risk. So no carrier wants to insure me because there's this concern I will pass early. On the other hand, in the life settlement market, I'm barely rated because the underwriters in the life settlement area say, I have acute events, I survive them, I have access to healthcare, I'm compliant. So it's a different type of underwriting, but I think for those that sell in the market, if you think about someone buying a lifetime annuity, right? It's better for the carrier if they don't live a long time. But meanwhile, your clients and policy owners out there are purchasing lifetime annuities because they're large institutions. I can tell you from our approach to the market, we only work with large institutions. Right. There's even carriers that are hedging their mortality risk with longevity risk. They're actually purchasing portfolios in this life settlement asset class. So I think we sometimes have to overcome that hurdle because it is true. The yield to the buyer is based off of when the policy matures or the insured passes. But, you know, it's also that same type of return for policy owners. I had this conversation yesterday where someone was saying, well, we don't really need it anymore. The protection need has changed. We sold the business. We've unwound some inner family loans. And we don't like life contingent assets. We don't like that our return on our $2 million policy depends on how quickly mom passes away. So they're actually selling to get away from their own. There you go. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's a good point, though. It does. It does come up, but it's highly regulated. The IRS has taken notice. So I think there's a lot of protections. We've been in the business for over two decades and never been involved in any type of litigation. It's all really good. And I think the most important thing is when you look at different parties and you have to make sure like Are they better off for doing X, Y, and Z? And if someone, if a life insurance asset is not a win, what most people do is they cancel that life insurance policy and they... They stop having to pay for it and they get whatever the surrender value is on that. And if the reality is if you're already going to make that decision and you can get paid more for that, why wouldn't you want it? Like that's your better off. And then if the investor that's giving you more money for something that you would be willing to accept by canceling, they also benefit with an asset that's not correlated to the market. And so you look at it if you zoom out on emotionally. It's a win-win in a free market that's regulated, obviously, and making sure that it's done right. But that's where I am a fan of this as an option. And a lot of people don't even know this is an option. That's why I'm so grateful that you would come on the show and break this down. Well, and I think it's wonderful that you've invited us to speak on it. You know, a lot of times I'll compare the transaction to other property sales. So, you know... or just recognizing that something is valuable. So I wear my Apple Watch now all the time. I've got a couple of really expensive watches that I never wear anymore. They sit in a drawer, but I know not to just throw them out because if I made a decision and I think I'm going to always wear my Apple Watch or another watch if it comes out that's similar to that, if I made the decision saying, hey, I'm never going to wear it, I know better than to throw it in the trash. I would have it appraised and I would either sell it or I might say I'm going to give it to one of my nieces. Every time they look at their risk, they think about me. But for decades, policy owners have made a decision. They don't want their life insurance anymore. And how many of you that are watching this have done this? They don't want their life insurance anymore, and they just throw it in the trash by letting it lapse. Or they hand it back to the carrier. So this opportunity you are giving everyone today to educate themselves about this option is amazing. because when it's a solution, it can create. tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars for other planning needs, other products, other services, or maybe just a great trip to make memories and moments with loved ones. So kind of moving through the process a little bit because we get this question a lot. Important to note kind of in the life settlement transaction, there's no exam required in this whole transaction. The buyers in this market usually just look at medical records. It starts with initially screening the policy, looking at what's called a maturity illustration that shows premiums going from current age, usually out past age 100 because people are living longer, as well as a date of birth and some basic health information. The next stage, if the case moves forward, the policy moves forward to market, is what we call the auction. This is really where our organization has one of our greatest strengths. We know this market, with been in this business for two decades. We review billions of death benefit every year. We sell hundreds of millions of dollars in the market. The auction is just like you envision. I don't know. I always compare it to a James Bond movies. I remember when they used to have a glamorous woman standing on stage, selling a piece of art or showcasing a sculpture. And then the people in the audience would be raising their bid cards, right? You might go to charities where they still do that but that same type of auction is available for these life insurance policies. These buyers are forced to compete. That's why we think seller representation is so important. Having Caleb, your firm, a firm like Asher, they're advocating for the policy owner. And in that auction, driving to the highest fair market value. And then the final stage is contracting. Important to note in contracting, that's the sale between buyer and seller. That contracting involves all interested parties. So owner, insured, and beneficiary all have to sign off on the sale. So I mention that because I'm sure none of you, but we meet lots of families or businesses that have some type of dysfunction. So it's important to note that from the beginning because all interested parties have to participate and sign off on the sale. Another big takeaway I hope everyone has from this presentation today is that there are two licensed parties in the life settlement transaction. There's the sales side advisory firm or team, you know, like Caleb's organization and Asher that have a duty to the policy owner, 100% alignment with the seller in the transaction and no conflict. So if we're in a boardroom and there's an image of that on the screen, we're sitting, you know, shoulder to shoulder, shoulder, elbow to elbow with the policy owner. On the opposite side of the table are the buyers. on the right side of your screen. Those buyers represent the institutions. They're 100% misaligned with the policy owner. Their fiduciary duty is to the investor. That's really important because there's lots of advertising right now that's good advertising. It's creating awareness, but it's not clear sometimes to viewers that those parties are 100% misaligned with them in this transaction. Those parties will go nameless unless you want to name them, but it's like, what you're essentially saying is just because you see an ad that says you could sell your life insurance, you're essentially going and listing, like selling your house to the buyer agent that has a duty to the person buying your house and not to you. That's right. And so it's really important when you're going to the table that you have someone representing your needs. And it's possible right now to not have someone represent you and go straight to the buyer. which would be in a lot of different ways, really foolish, but that's happening all the time in the space. Hence why sometimes life settlement market gets a bad rap. Yeah. I think, you know, information is so important. You know, my, my dad was a physician and he always said, you know, my patients come to me to give them choices, give them options. And then I make my recommendation, but it's good to have a resource there that is an expert, a subject matter expert in this area to give you your choices and give you your options. And that's aligned with you. You know a lot of times Unfortunately people fall victim to great advertising not understanding the difference. So I would think in most property sales It's good to have representation. It's good to have the auction right forcing numerous buyers To compete to purchase the asset. I agree. I agree with that and I think that that outcome and we're going to go through two quick Two quick slides that are going to show that It's really important. So here's an example. This is very common in our practice. This was a survivorship policy. The male had passed away. Insured is now 84, 1.5 million a face. Has very little cash in it, only about $25,000. That policy, after going through the auction process, having representation, sold after 14 different bids for $475,000. Meaning if this, if Ida did not meet you guys and she canceled, she would get $25,000. That's right. And because she did this process, she got $475,000 and does not have to pay the ongoing $45,000 to keep the policy alive. That's right. So when you think of a visually the auction, for those of you that like visuals, this is a common auction, what it looks like. So over a dozen different buyers or providers going through multiple rounds and bidding. where this policy started at a $75,000 offer and ended at a $475,000 offer. So from three times the surrender value, and that was actually an offer that the trustee found on her own. She had gotten a premium notice, which many of you probably receive, and thought, I don't want to pay it. She reacted to some advertising online, got a phone call. She sent some information, haggled a little bit over a few weeks, and thought, look how smart I am. I was about to give this to the carrier for $25,000. Instead, I'm getting three times that. Thankfully, she was missing some documentation for the trust as well as on the policy, and she spoke with her advisory team. And the advisory team said, why do you need it? She said, oh, did you know you could sell your policy? And they said, yes, we did, but we didn't know you weren't going to pay the premium. So another key takeaway from this is be proactive. with your policy owners. Make sure they know this option exists so they're not falling victim to advertising. They know to call you. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So because of that, this is a great example. Her advisors got involved. They brought us into the project. We built the file on behalf of the policy owner because that's our job as a sales side advisory firm. We worked with the advisory team with the policy owner, got some signatures from the insurer. The owner went to market, forced this auction to negotiate increased value. And that policy from the same buyer, instead of selling for three times the cash surrender value, ended up because of competition, because of the auction, selling for 19 times the surrender value. So when you think of how powerful that is for your policy owners, that additional capital event for this trust and for those beneficiaries was so meaningful. So think about your clients that maybe have life insurance policies. that if they could monetize them, it could help fund their long-term care needs. Think about those of you maybe that are saying, hey, none of my clients are these 70-plus-year-olds or 80-plus-year-olds. All my clients are 40 to 60. How many of your clients are that sandwich generation that they're having to pay for their kids, they're helping support their parents? Maybe the life insurance could be a means of helping relieve some of that burden on them, let them focus on their own retirement planning, maybe purchasing. The policies on themselves to accumulate wealth and let an existing policy actually fund some of those long term needs or retirement needs of their loved ones. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So on the screen right now, though, just kind of one last hit for what we just talked about, because it's so important. If I could tell you how many parties we speak with on a weekly basis that don't have the opportunity to hear presentations like this and they're falling victim. Just not knowing about, you know, the different options that exist for them. When you think about your life insurance policies, you have the opportunity of continuing to pay premium, no cash today, but continue to pay premium for the policies that qualify for the market and receiving the debt. benefit. And I'm not talking again about the whole life policies or index universal life that are building a lot of cash. We're looking at those underfunded policies where your clients have already made the decision saying, I'm considering surrendering our laps, or I could continue to fund this escalating premium many times. So they can keep the policy, receive the death benefit. They could surrender the policy, give it back to the carrier for that predetermined value, $25,000. they could, you know... just go to one buyer because of advertising and only receive a $75,000 offer or have representation, force buyers to compete and end up with the $475,000 offer. So being proactive, your involvement can really lead to just meaningful opportunities with your clients. Another couple of quick case studies and Caleb, feel free to jump in anytime. I love it. I love the case study because it makes it. Come alive. All right, perfect. So I'm going to go through these somewhat quickly. You can always reach out to Caleb or there's some of these slides and case studies are available to you. But we deal with a lot of clients where the premium has become a burden. Here's an 88-year-old male who was living longer than expected, million-dollar policy, and his premium was going up from a little under $50,000 to $65,000. His cash surrender value was only $90,000. He'd already paid in $450,000 into the policy. He was optimistic about his health and longevity that he made a decision to say, I'm going to surrender it. Instead of just getting the carrier value for $90,000, we went to market, negotiated 27 different offers in that auction that we described earlier, and that policy sold for $250,000, so about 25% of face. So significant value, multiple six figures over what the carrier would provide to them. You know, there's buyers again for $100,000 policies. There's buyers for $50 million policy, policies, pardon me. Again, we've got an insured in his late 80s. It's very common. 100% of the market will buy policies on insurers over the age of 80. 87 year old, his planning had worked out pretty well. Carlos liked being in the garden. So it's still very active. $5 million policy had less than $400,000 of surrender value. That's a significant amount of value. He didn't want to keep paying premium and said, let's terminate the policy, get the $386,000 back from the carrier. Instead of doing that, they went through the life settlement process, making sure they understood the fair market value, not just take the first bid, if you think of the carrier bid as the first bid. That policy, after two dozen different bids in the market, sold for $1.65 million. So imagine what a hero we could all be to our clients, or you could be to your families and business partners to create an additional seven figures of liquidity. Incredible. I always like, Caleb, to mention a term policy because I think many of us will think about term and think about it as not having any value unless the insured passes. So this is an example, and we sell convertible term policies every month at Asher. This is a 72-year-old male was retiring because he had a change in health, wasn't dying, but had a significant change in health. The policy was still convertible. I do like to always recommend from a practice tip perspective, all term is not equal. So when you're working with your insurance specialist or you're selling term to your clients, the conversion rate, the conversion options, you know, how long they last, what policy types they can be converted to are really important. Jamie, do you know that we own convertibleterm.com? No, but that's great. It's important. It's a great domain. And I 100% agree. Convertible term is superior than other term out there because it just gives you more options. And we'll see that is really key for something like this. Absolutely because in this situation Was retiring because of some health changes, million-dollar policy, was really focused on the long-term care expenses he was going to have, wasn't going to convert the policy himself and pay the increased premium that usually goes along with a conversion to a permanent product. But this policy was still convertible to a very efficient universal life policy. This policy sold in the market for close to half a million dollars after 11 different bids. So instead of surrendering it or lapsing it, For zero, this gentleman received almost half a million dollars because his advisor knew to tell him, before you just let it go, before you throw it in the trash, let's value it. Just like you would value every other piece of property you own. Question, when you get these payments, how is it taxable? No, great question. So there's very consumer friendly revenue rulings, but they've actually been in place since 09 and then were updated as recently as 2019. Up to basis or premiums paid, there's no tax liability. If the surrender value was greater than basis, and that usually occurs more so with those cash accumulation policies, the whole life, the index universal life or some of the variable contracts. But if the surrender value is greater than basis, that portion's ordinary income. And then the amount above that to settlement, long-term capital gains. So for this gentleman, there's no cash surrender value. The basis into the policy was pretty minimal because it was a term policy, but up to basis was tax-free. And then the amount above that to sale was long-term capital gains. Wow, that's phenomenal. Yeah, very consumer-friendly. So again, just a quick hit. I've got a couple more case studies. I just want you to think about your situation, your client's situation. This was actually with a wealth management firm. They were looking at their client's assets, where they were allocating dollars. Although this was a pretty efficient policy, it was still costing the client about $300,000 a year, which I consider that to be a pretty large sum. So the decision was made. She didn't really need the insurance any longer. She didn't view it as part of her investment portfolio. One of those that doesn't think life contingent assets is something, especially on her own life, that she wanted to focus on in her portfolio. That policy, instead of being surrendered for $140,000, sold for $600,000 after 21 different offers were negotiated with the dozen plus buyers in the market. So when you think about your clients, even if they're healthy, They could sell their policies in the market, especially if they're over the age of 70. So keep that in mind as your clients are going through planning. I always say when you're evaluating insurance structures, for those of you that deal with some of the complex structures associated with life insurance, like split dollar, or if they're tied to buy-sell agreements, or you're doing some kind of analysis about economic benefit, if you're ever evaluating the structure, also value the life insurance. That's right. Yeah. It can be quite meaningful. This is an example I love because it was just again a time where it was like a home run for the advisory team and the clients just thought the advisory firm was amazing for bringing them this option that turned into an amazing solution. So these clients were going through a sale, an M&A transaction. From a life insurance perspective, they only looked at it as the death benefit or the surrender value. They're about to surrender $21 million of guaranteed universal life, which guaranteed universal life is the number one, I would say, most interesting product right now on the market. $21 million of universal life had very little cash, less than $200,000 of cash in that portfolio. Instead of surrendering it for less than $200,000, it sold on the market for close to $7 million. Wow. That's a crazy difference. That's right. Wow. Wow is right. And we see those wows. on a daily basis at Asher. The market wants to purchase policies. We've got to give them a reason to purchase them. But these institutions believe in the asset class. So it's really here to serve the consumers, serve the policy owner. We just need to ramp up the awareness, ramp up the volume. There's about 9 billion, I think, policies that are surrendered or lapsed every year. and you're never going through this process. Not all of them will qualify for the market, but even if some of them qualify, what an opportunity to create significant value. We just went over this. I'm going to just kind of move quickly, but the revenue rulings, they're there. We've written a couple articles for Tax Advisor and Trust and Estate, so we can estate and trust, pardon me. So if you're interested in learning more, reach out to Caleb and his team, or you can look on our website. We've got some of that information. You know, and a reminder as we've gone through this, I really love, again, how Caleb started with, you know, awareness and education being so important. That the life insurance that you own or that your clients own, help them recognize that it needs to be a managed asset, not just a hold. When they think about, you know, the portfolio, maybe one or two policies or many more that they own, we got to pay attention to it. You know, a lot of times, um, Advisory teams treat life insurance like secondhand smoke. They've got to be around it, but they avoid it. Unfortunately, if everyone's avoiding it, no one's giving guidance to the policy owner. And some policy owners, they just aren't aware of how important it is to focus on it. The landscape of life insurance over the last 40, 50 years, management's key. You know, Caleb, to his point earlier related to whole life policies, you know, 100% of the liability is on the carrier for whole life policies, where they say, you pay your premium, we're going to pay you that death benefit. You know, you set premium, great product. That doesn't exist for the universal life policies. They allow for flexibility, which is why it's so great. for sale in the life settlement market, but it does put some of that responsibility on the policy owner to manage the asset. I love it. Jamie, thank you. Thank you for taking the time. I felt like this is very thorough, very to the point. And I just want to say, if this is something that you're watching this and you want to learn more, we have two links for you. One link is if you want to learn more about maybe valuing your situation, you can click that link. And if you are an advisor, a financial professional looking at this and saying, hey, I... I want to offer this as well. Jamie, you guys have been so kind to say, here's a resource and a way for them to connect with you. And we'll include the best link down below for that. Any final words that you have as it relates to this? I felt like this was very thorough. So usually I ask follow-up questions, but your presentation, I think, answered all the questions that I had. Oh, I know. I just would tell policy owners and advisors, Um, Before you surrender or lapse, materially change the life insurance, value it. Think about it and treat it the same way you would treat real estate or jewelry. And if we can get people in that habit, I think we're going to create a lot of opportunities to be of service and add value to clients. Yeah, I think it's interesting because life insurance is one of those, it's just such a misunderstood asset. And the reason I love this is even if you're watching this and you may have just bought life insurance, this should encourage you. Because sometimes in the death benefit, not everything flows into an internal rate of return. There's other benefits that are valuable to the marketplace. So much so that people will pay millions of dollars over what you currently could have gotten from the insurance company because they value that asset. And whether you live to see it or not, the fact is that is a valuable asset that you have on your balance sheet. And it's the... It's almost like selling a home without getting any estimates. Just being like, well, I bought this home. Let's sell it without actually going to the marketplace. And that almost will always net you a negative result. And the same thing goes with this. It's like without this awareness, a lot of people aren't getting the full valuation of the assets that they have. And so, Jamie, thank you. And we very much look forward to. The working relationship we have with you and excited about what the future holds. I look forward to it as well. Thank you.
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