Land investing. You have a massive market. The cherry on top is there's no big money in it. There's no private equity groups. There's no hedge funds. It's all these little cottage industries. So you, me, a million people could be in this niche and we'll all run out of money before we run out of deal flow. What does someone need to start a business like this? I want to help everyone along the economic spectrum. So if you have tons of time and no money, I'll give you, let's say you've got a good job, but you have time for a side hustle. The real estate world is so massive. Please give us Mark the masterclass. Mark, the land geek, welcome back to the Better Wealth Show. Caleb, thank you again for having me. Such a big fan, brother. Man, I am pumped to have you back on. I had you on our show many, many years ago. I was actually, you didn't know this at the time, but I was in a closet in Colorado. This closet, I could touch both sides. And it's just beautiful when you think about the growth that we've had. I was at a mastermind the other day. And this mastermind, we were talking about our best investments, what's working, what's not. Lots of things not working, by the way, in a lot of these circles. And one common theme that kept coming up was land investing, land investing, land investing. And I connected the dots because I know of you. I've been following your stuff. And I was like, man, my number one takeaway was I need to get Mark back on the show to do a master class on how buying land could be an amazing way to grow your wealth. And I also know that you guys since have created a way where you teach, you teach everything, you don't hold anything back, which we're going to go today on this masterclass. But you also have a way where you actually do it for people. And I would love before we end for you to at least touch on that as well, because there's some people, myself included, that love the concept, get the concept, but don't necessarily want to actually do the work. And so before we jump into the masterclass, why don't you just take a step back? And just tell us a little bit of like how you stumbled on this, because I know you didn't come out of the womb saying, I'm going to buy land and do this thing full time. But your story in itself is pretty inspiring. Yeah, I know. It's crazy. I mean, now it's, Caleb, it's 25 years. We're going to rewind the tape 25 years from now. And I was a miserable, micromanaged, 45-minute commute to work and back investment banker. Picture me in a cube, fluorescent lights. you know, watching the clock and just miserable. And so it was so bad for me. I wouldn't get the Sunday blues anticipating Monday coming around. I'd have the Friday blues anticipating the weekend going by really fast and having to be back at work on Monday. So my firm hires this guy and he's telling me that as a side hustle, he's going to these tax deed auctions. He's buying up raw land pennies on the dollar. He's flipping them online and making 300% return on his money. And Caleb, I'm looking at... companies all day long. Great company. Great. Has 15% EBITDA margins or free cash flow. Average company is 10%. I'm looking at companies all day long, less than 10%. So of course, I'm from St. Louis. I'm from the show me state. I don't believe them. So he's like, no, I'll show you. So I've got three grand saved up for car repairs. I go to New Mexico. I buy exactly what he tells me to buy. I buy 10 half acre parcels and average price of $300 each. I flipped them online and they all sell for an average price of $1,200 each. It worked. So I took all that money and I went to another auction. This is in Arizona where I live. Again, this is $2,000. And there's no one in the room. I'm going to buy up lots and acres for nothing. I sell all that land. I made over $90,000 cash. So I say to my wife, and she's pregnant, I say, honey, I'm going to quit my job and become a full-time land investor. And she's like, absolutely not. So I said, okay, okay. So it took about 18 months. the land investing income to exceed the investment banking income and then i quit i've done over 6 500 deals since i absolutely love it um still actively buying and selling today just more as like a ceo type of role um you know i'm not really negotiating the deals anymore but more on strategy but i i still absolutely love the business and what what i love about you is you're actively doing this You also teach it and you have to be careful. Some people that teach strategies, you go, where's most of your income coming from? Are you making all your money teaching? And it's like, no, that's actually like, it's, you're, you're doing this to teach people how to, how to go about this. Then the other, the other question that I think I had for you back in the day is like, if this is so good, why are you teaching people the secret sauce? And I just think there's like so much abundance. and so why don't you just mention, mention kind of like how you show up and how you help people. And what does your business day-to-day look like today? Yeah, it's such a good question too, because I remember I was on, it was 2011, and I'm on vacation with my family in Northern California. I remember this vividly and I get a call on my phone and this guy, Tori. said, Mark, I'm on your website. This is my land website. And he's like, hey, I think he wants to buy a piece of land. He's like, I'm actually really intrigued what you do and how you do it. He's like, would you teach me? I'm like, I don't really teach people how to do this. He's like, well, what if I pay you this? I'm like, oh, okay. Well, let me, let me, hold on. Let me talk to my wife. So I go to my wife. I'm like, hey, this guy wants me to teach him the land business. She's It's like, why on earth would you teach anybody? What you're doing, you're going to create your own competition. I'm like, you're absolutely right. So I'm like, let's put on our investment banking hat and let's just take a look at how big this market really is. And so as I did the analysis, there are billions of acres of raw land just in the United States. And you could not think of a more boring real estate niche. Like you aren't going to go on HGTV or the DIY Network and say, flip this land. The before picture is raw land. The after picture is raw land. So if you go to a RIA meeting. 100 people in the room, 99 of them are going to be house flippers, landlords, and wholesalers. You and I might be the only land guy. So it's boring, number one. And then you have a massive market, number two. And then the cherry on top is there's no big money in it. There's no private equity groups. There's no hedge funds. It's all these little cottage industries. So you, me, a million people could be in this niche, and we'll all run out of money before we run out of deal flow. And so once I did that analysis, I'm like, I'm going to teach this guy. So I'm working with Tori, and he comes across this deal in Nevada. And it's a huge deal. He can't do the due diligence on it fast enough because the guy owned thousands of acres. He owed $30,000 in back taxes, and he's going to lose it to the county, right? And it's going to go to a public auction and be competitive. I'm like, okay, we'll split this deal. I'll pay the taxes. I'll do the due diligence. We each made 300 grand on that one deal. And that was life-changing money for Tori. And so it felt so great. I'm like, I really like this. And I have to say, like, I love the land business, but it really only helps my family. But laying geek and helping people and being like that pebble in the pond and having that impact ripple out. Because if I can just help people solve not just their money problems, but their time problems and create this passive income, they can go on and live their best lives. And that has been the most professionally gratifying thing for me. When someone says, Mark, you've changed my life. I love it. Well, I said when we first got on, I was like, please don't hold anything back. And I know you won't. And so please give us, Mark, the master class on how anybody that's watching or listening to this could. take your knowledge and start applying this into land flipping. Okay. So let's just go through the model first. So Caleb, where do you live? I live in Nashville, Tennessee. Okay, nice. Okay. So you're in Nashville and let's assume that you own five acres of raw land where I live in Arizona. And let's say you owe $200 in back taxes. So you're advertising two important things. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to the raw land. You're in Tennessee. properties in Arizona. And number two, you're distressed financially in some weird way because we don't pay for things like our property taxes. We don't value them in the same way. As a result, the kind of treasurer keeps sending you notices saying, Caleb, you don't pay your property taxes. You're going to lose that property to a tax deed or a tax lien investor. So all I'm going to do is look at the comparable sales on your five-acre parcel for the last 12 to 18 months. I'm going to take the lowest comparable sale. Let's say it's $10,000. Easy math. I'm going to divide by four. That's going to give me what Warren Buffett would call a 300% margin of safety. So I'm going to send you an actual offer of $2,500. And so you accept it. Why? Because for you, $2,500 is better than nothing. Now, in reality, 3% to 5% of people are going to accept my quote-unquote top dollar offer. But now that you've accepted it, I have to go through due diligence or in-depth research. And number one, I've got to confirm you still own the property. Number two, I have to make sure the back taxes are only $200. I have to make sure there's been no breaks in the chain of title, no liens or encumbrances. And if you're listening to this and you feel overwhelmed by it all, right, like this whole big property checklist, well, we delegate it. So I have a team in Jamaica, and it's like $11. They're connected to an American title company. They do my due diligence for me. They're getting me the plat maps and the aerial maps. They're getting the chain of title. They're doing all of it. now if i was investing say more than five thousand dollars i would just go through a traditional abstract or title company would cost a little bit more money so but it's only 2500 i'll take a little bit of title risk let's assume everything checks out i send you a check for 2300 i send the treasurer a check for 200 i own it free and clear now i don't know if you remember i'm gonna sell this property 30 days or less i'm gonna make a cash flow like a rental home so kyle do you know my best buyer is the neighbors the neighbors you got it it's the neighbors i remember i remember i'm gonna I'm going to send out the neighbor letters and say, hey. Here's your opportunity to protect your privacy, protect your views, know your neighbor. So oftentimes the neighbors will buy. Now, if they pass, I'll go to my buyers list. And if the buyers list passes, I'll go to a little company you may have heard of. It's called Meta or Facebook buy sell groups in the marketplace. I'll advertise there. I might even go to Craigslist. And then I'll go to the lands, land.com, landmoto.com, landandfarm.com, landflip.com. land century.com landhub.com these are platforms where people buy and sell raw land but the secret and this is where the master class comes in is in the pricing i'm going to make it irresistible and so all i'm going to ask for is a 2500 down payment for this five acre parcel and then i'm just making a car payment let's say 249 a month at 12 percent interest in the next 60 months so i get this one-time sale i get my money out of the down payment I could go six to 10 months out. Now I'm getting, what, $249 a month, 12% interest, like 60 months. Caleb, no renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents. And because I'm not dealing with a tenant, I'm exempt from Dodd-Frank, Rest of the Safe Act, all this owner's real estate legislation. So the simple game is, can we create enough land notes where our passive income exceeds our fixed expenses? And they're working because we want to, not because we have to. And by the way, these yields really get juiced when you don't even use your own money. If you use an infinite banking concept, the math gets insane. Right, right. Because you're, yeah, you're using other people's money while you're still getting the benefits of your insurance. If we take a step back, let's say, what's the percent of actual neighbors that take advantage of this? About 30%. Okay. So let's say 30%. I would imagine that they are... the definition of best buyer because they're like, number one, that seems super cheap to get five acres. I mean, I'm looking at five acres in the Nashville area and it's like a million bucks. It's a great, right? So number one, that's just, we're not talking about prime land. We're talking about rural land. So I put 2,500 in your example. So you get your money back and then 60 months of payments and then What happens if they just want to prepay? Or does that never happen? They just will take your seller finance? Yeah, so if we're going to get technical, we're going to use three documents, right? And we're going to use software. So 90% of this is going to be automated with inexpensive software, LGPass.com on the front end, GeekPay.io, which is going to be a set and forget it payment system on the back end, and then inexpensive virtual assistants. So... So logpass.com is going to create, with the press of a button, it used to take me 20 minutes of paperwork. Now I just press a button. I'm going to get a promissory note, a land sale contract, and a purchase sale agreement. And so my borrower is going to sign all of that. And then I'm going to set up that note with geekpay.io. Now let's assume that they want to prepay. No problem. They can actually go and do it on their own through geekpay.io and make a prepayment. It'll do all the math. If they want to pay it off early, no problem. I'll go ahead and convey ownership via a warranty deed. Now, let's say worst case scenario, they make 10 payments and they default, right? So what's happened? You get the land back. I get the land back on a land contract because I still own the asset. So there's no cost of foreclosure. I'm not using a deed of trust. I'm using a land contract. So now if we do the math, right? They made 10 payments of, say, $250. That's $2,500. Now I got $2,500 down. Now I got another $2,500. So now what do I have? I'm pure profit. I then resell that land, and my return is infinite. How many people default on the land? It depends on the economy. So right now we're looking at about 12% because the economy is pretty good. And. We're, you know, we don't do credit checks. So 12% is probably pretty average. If we start going into recession. then it's going to go 20%. In 2008, I had, actually, I really get hit by 2010. 2010, because we're kind of a long tail of real estate. So when residential and commercial are getting hit, I can prepare now because I kind of know, oh, this is going to take a year or two before I feel it, is a 50% default rate during that time. People were calling me and saying, markets between paying this land or food. I'm going with food. I don't know if you, I mean, you're young, you probably forgot what it was like then, but the great recession was real. So that could happen again. But I would say that on average, we're looking at about, let's say 12% on a default rate. And really, are you, when you're getting, when, when you get a default in a way, you're almost happy because the down payment, it gets your money back. So it's not like you're happy over the moon all the time, but it's like, wow, now I have. essentially an infinite return and I get to resell this thing. Yeah. I mean, the math makes me happy. The human part of it, obviously, I don't want people to lose their land. That part's not that fun, but the business side of it is fantastic. Do you, and this is just a side note, do you, with what we're seeing right now in the economy, you said the economy is strong. I'm starting to see some people and the numbers looking like renters are starting to default a little bit more and all, like, do you see that? And I would imagine that that actually helps opportunities when it comes to buying land, because when the, when the economy is getting tougher or tighter, I would imagine that there's even more opportunities to buy land because people are having to choose and maybe a property that they don't necessarily care about is going to be more desirable to just get off their hands. Yeah, 100%. I mean, the way that it's worked, when we look at it, say, I mean, it used to be a 10-year real estate cycle, which is so strange. I don't even know what our real estate cycle is now. It seems like it's way longer. But in that cycle, you're going to have times where, like you're saying, maybe we're going into a recession. So let's say we have high unemployment. The world's on sale because people that own these assets, they want cash. They're going to sell it. you know, all the time, right? Then we come out of recession and then we call what I call equilibrium. It's easy to buy. It's easy to sell. People want the assets. Then the market heats up. We saw that a few years ago, especially during COVID, where nobody wants cash, right? They want assets and the land starts flying off the shelf. But because of inflation now, I've got to pay more for the land than I'm used to paying. I'm still getting equilibrium in the sense that My prices have gone up as I'm paying more, so I'm still getting my same yield, but I have to figure out, like, hey, what happened, like, three months ago, these people were, you know, were accepting these offers. Now my response rate's under 3%. I know I have to jack up my offer. Yeah. And so today we're seeing, you know, it's really strong because of inflation. Nobody wants cash. They want assets. And so land, gold. you know bitcoin like these finite assets are continuing to go up in price so you're you're gonna have to offer a little bit more but that means that you're able to ask i'm gonna sell it more yeah yeah right okay so i'm i'm if you play devil's advocate the downside to this this game is if your systems are not working well um because i would imagine it could be a time suck if your systems are not dialed in i'm trying to play because it's like There's really no downside other than the time, energy that is going into something like this. Because if you get land, you're creating enough buffer. It is, you can touch it, technically. It's a real piece of land. Is there a place where you're stuck with land that you just can't sell? And now you're stuck with land that nobody, like nobody wants? Or is that almost like, will you always be able to find a buyer? If you're a high-income earner or own a successful business, you're already creating real value in the world. The real question is, are you keeping that money, protecting it, and growing it the way that actually supports your long-term goals? At Better Wealth, we help people like you better keep, protect, and grow their wealth through various tax strategies, estate planning, specially designed life insurance, retirement planning, and even a fractional family office service. If you're interested in one or more of the areas we can serve and want to learn more, The next step is to book a free clarity call with us. Click the link in the description or tag comment below to get started. Back to the video. I always joke like there's a pig for every barn. And it's just a matter of your marketing. I mean, I bought land on the side of a mountain I thought I'd never sell. And sure enough, like a Hollywood director bought it because he wanted to film out there and didn't want to deal with the permits with the county. So he's like, no, this is my land. I can own it. So there is like, I've never been stuck with a piece of raw land. Now, even swampland, like, wait, how can you sell swampland? You can grow shiitake mushrooms on swamp land. If you, you know, ETVers love riding through the mud. So there's literally a highest and best use for every piece of land. Now, if you can't get there, right? Let's say that a rancher's gated off that land. During due diligence, we won't buy that land. But for the most part, you know, I'm not a land snob. In the same way, like, I don't eat McDonald's. but they sell a billion of them right so just because i don't eat it doesn't mean that everyone doesn't love mcdonald's right so um so i learned that the hard way um years and years ago i was i was out buying it did i ever tell you the story this is i'm in new mexico i'm in las vegas new mexico with my buddy and these this land was so ugly it looked like chernobyl to me and we're looking around but we could go and buy it over the counter so this land was so ugly It's so bad in my mind. It went to auction and no one bought it. So now it's over the counter. And the county treasurer is just selling it over the counter. Like, just take it from us. So there was 100 lots. And was it 100? Yeah, I think it was like 50 bucks a lot or something crazy. Like, it was super cheap. And I'm looking around and I said to my buddy, like, I'm not buying this. He's like, you don't split it. He's like, you buy 50, I buy 50. I'm like, no. I'm like, I'm going to sell it. Somebody's going to come out of here and they're going to want a refund. Or even worse, they're going to sue me. It's so bad. It's so ugly. He's like, well, you know, it's 50 bucks. He's like, I could probably just double my money. Well, he started selling those things for $1,000 online. And he would email me the sale, like to tease me. And I email him back, refund. And then he sent me to do it again. even on the back refund slash lawsuit. He sells out, he makes a hundred grand and 50 of that could have been mine. Right. And so guess how many refunds he had? Zero, no lawsuits. And that, so for $50,000, I learned my lesson. I'm not the buyer. Right. And so it was, it was a relatively inexpensive lesson to learn. So I know you, you walk through the, the system where it's like, okay. I live in Nashville. I have a, I'm financially distressed. I have a property that I'm back taxes on. So that tells you, that tells you that there's some type of, right. Yeah. Now that's our lowest hanging fruit. Once we're in a good County and we know there's strong demand there, I'll, I'll mail everybody. I don't care if you're, I don't care if you're in arrears or not. Right. And, and, um, and now there's AI. So there's this company out there. I had them on my podcast. And what they'll do is they'll take your list of owners and they'll tell you who's most probably going to accept your offer. And they use this algorithm. You know what the biggest indicator is? No. It's the craziest thing. It's changing credit score either way. If the credit score goes up or down, they're more likely to sell that asset. Interesting. Yeah. Why is that? Well, if their credit score has gone down, they're financially hurting in some way. But if their credit score has gone up. and things are going well for them, they might just double down on something else. Like, well, now I'm going to stack even more chips and buy something. Okay. So you've really just taken like the lowest hanging fruit is the land that has back taxes, but now you're just like, hey, you understand that if you can buy, it's the old adage, buy low, sell high. And you're doing that and you're eliminating so much unknowns by not getting into real estate. I just, I want to remind people, the real estate world is so massive. I mean, there's so much private equity money. There's so many people teaching there's HDV, like there's so many people that are being real estate investors. So if you're watching this or listening to this and being like, well, the markets, you know, I'm too late. Would you say that about real estate? Cause there's still people making a ton of money in real estate. And yet there's so many more moving pieces and you're dealing with. You're dealing with a fundamental structure that's going to depreciate and create more variables. So you're essentially eliminating all the headache. and hassle. And so it very much feels like, it just makes sense to me, Mark, that this is something that it's like, if you figured out a way, you're eliminating a lot of the potential levers that could really spoil a deal. Yeah. I mean, for the most part, to your point, as far as a market being saturated, in any point in time, you have to be flexible as an investor and a business owner. I think the people that are successful are the ones that just stay in the game and they understand like, okay, this is an obstacle and I'm gonna learn from this obstacle, I'm gonna get better at it. And what happens is people have low frustration tolerance. Like if I go out and play golf and I see other people playing, you know, hitting the ball well, and I'm duffing it, I'm like, golf isn't for me, right? Now, if I practiced three times a week like they do, golf would be for me and I would really enjoy it. I think it's the same thing in any endeavor that you do. You have to commit. You have to know I'm going to suck, but there's only one way to get through the suck, and that's just get my reps in and get good at it. And so once you hit that point of competence, now you have this advantage in the marketplace. And so, you know, you see just in any field, people come in, they go out. They come in, they go out. But the people that make real money and build real wealth, not just real estate, but this is anything in life, they just stick at it. They stay with it. They stay with it. They stay with it. They get better and better and better. And all of a sudden, on a long enough timeline, everybody gets paid. But for whatever reason, we get in our own way and we quit. And, you know, it's like kind of like building a bridge, like you build half the bridge, you don't get the other side, you're like, oh, it's hard to build a bridge. And you're like, okay, maybe there's a better bridge to build. And then you start all over again. But at the reality is like, nothing worth doing is easy. Like this is a simpler model, but it's not easy. And it's not get rich quick. Like, but anything like there just isn't anything out there that is. Yeah, there's there's nothing worth long term. to stick into something if it's a get rich quick, easy. Because if it was that easy, then everyone would do it, which is one of my questions. So why hasn't PE, why hasn't there been a lot of like BlackRock? Why haven't they like done this before? Or like, why haven't they approached people like you? Like, why aren't they in the game? They have too much money. You have a billion dollars. I mean, you can't buy a $1,500 raw piece of land. Right. It's just they have too much money. They need to buy a productive farmland and make 8%. That's what billionaires do. Right. Bill Gates, John Malone, Jeff Bezos, like they're buying productive tracts of land and they're clicking, you know, 8 to 12% or a timberland plant. Like that's where if you have that much capital, that's what you want to do. We're just too small. So having too little money, that's a problem too. You can't buy anything. But too much money is also a problem. So we're sort of in this Goldilocks niche where you just need to have enough money. All right. So let's talk about the two paths. Path number one is somebody who's wanting to get started to learn about this. How much money do they need to start with? I know that this is really tough for you to say, and so don't say it if it's going to get you in trouble. But I would love to know like typical or average returns. of your students i i know that could just don't get yourself in trouble but i just would love to know like that and then where where do they begin like whether they do it on their own or that they work with you it's like what what does someone need to start a business like this and then it's like it's one thing to listen to a podcast but it's like how does someone go about learning this whether they work with you guys or if they do it on their own like let's talk about that and then i want to talk about the the fund opportunity that um The people in the mastermind that I was in happened to be a part of your fund, and that's where it's a true partnership with you. The downside to that is you need a lot more money. I'm sure you need to have certain accreditations, deal. And so that's not for everyone, but I would love to almost cover the two paths. And if I'm missing a third path, let me know. But those are the two paths that I see that I would love to gain clarity on, how someone could learn more if they were interested in. potentially having this as a part of their portfolio? Yeah. So I want to help everyone along the economic spectrum. So if you have tons of time and no money. I'll give you free information. You can go on YouTube or the podcast, and you can get all this free information, and you can do this on your own. So, in fact, even for your listeners, I'll give them my book, Dirt Rich, for free. Just pay shipping. That's a really good way to start learning. And then let's say you've got a good job, but you have time for a side hustle. I'll do it with you. So we have programs. We'll do it with you. We provide the accountability with the training, everything you need to start your business and buy and sell raw land. And then let's say that you're rich, but you're not wealthy. So you've got tons of money, but you have no time. I'll do it for you. And that's the partnership piece. So depending on where you are on that spectrum, we can help you. And so that's, yeah, I would say that as a good next step. get the book. And then if you're an accredited investor and you're like, oh, okay, I've got a lot of money, but I have no time and I want to get a good return. And I like the fact that, you know, here's an asset these guys are buying for me, 25, 30 cents a dollar. It's, I get, I have no debt, right? They're paying cash. So interest rates can do whatever they want. We don't care. The asset's unique in the fact that there's nothing physical. So pandemics fires floods hurricanes we don't care the land remains and so uh that's fantastic and then when we sell the land it cash flows we have no headaches no renters rehabs renovations or rodents and so and just like we were talking about if there's a default great we just lower our cost basis we do it again and we get the power of compounding and again when you marry this with with an infinite banking strategy. You know, the returns are insane. I would say for, oh, I don't want to give out numbers publicly, but I would say that we outperform everybody. You know, from a risk to order ratio, we have the best thing going. I'll just say that. But, like, yeah, you know, but again, it's realistic. You know, you're not going to make crypto returns, but you're not going to have crypto losses either. Right, right. the The students that have gone through your system, what's real? What's an average? The people that are actually getting results, is the goal to like, how does that usually work? It depends on how much capital they have coming in. So I say if you can start with $5,000, that you can get up to $500 a month in passive income. If you can start with more, right? Let's say you start with $100,000. You should get up to about $8,000 to $10,000 a month of passive income in, say, 12 to 18 months, depending on your learning curve and the market. So you can kind of just do the math from there. Now, the question is, well, what if I don't have the capital? Well, there's capital out there. Money is cheap. It's a skill that's rare. Can you do the hard thing, which is buy this asset $0.25, $0.30 a dollar? If you can't, Money will find you. Okay. All right. Well, we'll definitely get the information down below to get the book and then the different paths if you're interested. And, Mark, I really appreciate your time. Is there anything else that you want to say? Any cool stories, any epiphanies, anything to watch for? We're recording this in 2025 near the end in October. So I'm just curious to hear what are you most excited about? Well, I've got my third book. So I've got Dirt Rich. I've got Dirt Rich 2. They're out, How to Scale Land Business, but I'm working on Dirt Rich Forever, which is a mindset book about striving and how do we strive and be like a duck? So calm above the surface, but paddling furiously below. So I'm very excited about my first mindset book coming out. And then as far as the story, One of my clients from three years ago, she had a goal. She owned a marketing agency, and she just texted me. I can read it. Let me see. It made my day. This is a few days ago. She said that she made, she has a seven-figure land business, and she made $270,000 on cash flips this year, which is the most she's ever done in cash. And it's changed her life. She's playing pickleball. She quit her agency and she's living her best life. And I think that's ultimately my dream is to help people create more freedom. joy, purpose in their life. That's why we do what we do. I love it, man. Well, Mark, I really, really appreciate you taking the time to be on the show. And I'm very much like I'm committed to creating content that helps people think differently. And I know that there's many people that use infinite banking to work with you. And there's a lot of our clients that are stacking money in insurance policies as not as an investment, but as a place to store. storehouse cash and they're looking for opportunities. And I always get uncomfortable when people ask like, where should I invest money? Because I never want to be the person that's saying do this, do that. And so that's why I have this platform. That's why we have other resources to just give people options. And I know firsthand people that are using their policies and their liquid capital to invest in the opportunities, whether it's education or whether it's working with you and their whole goal is to create. create cash flow. So there's nothing magical about any of this stuff. It just is like, if you have, if you have capital and you're not, not, you don't necessarily want to put all your money in, in the wall street, um, casino as, as our, our friend Russ Morgan would say, you want to look for other, other options. This is, this is definitely one of those, one of those things that, um, seems pretty on, on inspiring when you just think about like, yeah, it's not necessarily something that you're going to brag about, or you're not going to have like the big exciting buildings and all, but it's one of those things that once you create a system, it works. And you guys have, I would say you guys spend more time on just systematizing things. That's one thing I've just been really impressed with is like, it's one thing about the philosophy. Actually, the philosophy is pretty easy and simple to understand. It's the, how do you get the systems to do it? Because a lot of people would be discouraged if 97% of people are saying no. Most people would be like, oh, this is not working. But the fact that you guys are making so much profit and cash flow on the 3% is pretty special in itself. Yeah. No, thank you. I mean, it's all about systems. Even a bad system is better than no system because you can iterate on it and fix it. So, yeah, thank you. Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much, Mark. Thanks, Kevin. If you're an accredited investor and want to find a place where you can look at all the advanced tax strategies that I know or have I been pitched or I've heard, I've created a place for you. It's called taxandassets.com. It's a free community for accredited investors that want to go deeper on potential tax strategies for you to do research on, for your tax team to do research on. You can go to taxandassets.com or check out the link in the description.
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