Hey everybody, I'm here with Rich Baer from Legacy Capital Group and this video is going to be a lot of fun. We're going to be looking at charitable remainder trust and essentially if you're someone that doesn't like to pay taxes and owns assets and has stocks that you're sitting on, we're going to delve into a strategy on how you could potentially use to not pay as much taxes. Rich, thank you for coming on. I appreciate your expertise and your willingness to share the CRT strategy. Caleb, thanks for the invite. I'm looking forward to the conversation. Ask me anything you'd like and I'll give you an answer. Hopefully it'll be correct. I like how you roll. Before we jump into your presentation, I would love to just get like a two-minute background of like who you are, how did you stumble upon this, and like I know that you specialize in certain things. This is one of them. And so how did you build a specialty around Charitable Remainder Trust? Well, living in Silicon Valley, it's kind of a no-brainer. We've been doing these for over 30 years. In fact, when we started doing charitable remainder trusts, we couldn't find an attorney or an accountant who'd even heard about them. I'd learned about this through a study group in the late 80s, I'm guessing. So I would say 89 or 90 was the first one we did. And we have used them because being in Silicon Valley with all of these tech entrepreneurs, we would have clients. The who came in that had very concentrated stock positions, they needed to diversify, but they didn't want to diversify and pay tax. So we had to come up with a methodology that would allow them to diversify tax efficiently. And that's what we came up with was this device. When what what was like the epiphany when you found out for the do you remember back 30 plus years ago when you realized like this was something that was possible and like what would be. If you had to explain this before we jump into the presentation, just to the layman, what is the aha moment of this whole strategy? I think the aha moment was realizing that there is essentially a wealth of client assets in Silicon Valley, in the Bay Area, that have been untapped for this kind of purpose. And it gave us the ability to not only... to eliminate capital gains tax, but repurpose dollars that would have gone to taxes for philanthropic purposes that the clients might feel passionate about. That doesn't mean that you have to have a strong philanthropic intent. The math is compelling without having a strong philanthropic intent, but it's great if you can do good and do well yourself. And that's what this ends up giving the clients the ability to do. Another way to say it is you get to spend more and have more of your money and be able to be able to be more generous at the same time. So the person that gets the short end of the stick is the government, it seems. And I think many people would be very interested in learning about how the strategy works. So without further ado, I know you prepared a presentation for our community. So I would love for you to share that. And I also just want to say, if this is something that you're watching and you're like, hey, this is a strategy I would like to learn more about, I would even love to talk to Rich or someone on his team. We have links down below for you to get more information around the strategy and potentially talk to someone that could see if the strategy works for you. And so without further ado, I just, Rich, if you want to dive in and I do appreciate you just coming on and being willing to share. My pleasure, Caleb. So as I said before, this works really well with people of publicly traded stock. It's not the only asset. we've done lots of different assets but public stock is the most straightforward because You get a value every day. It's easy to liquidate. You just have to sell it. Other assets may be more difficult, more time consuming. They may require a formal appraisal, qualified appraisal. Most of the people that we work with have, in this environment, have low basis stock that they've acquired through their employment. So it could be an RSU, an ISO, an NSO, or an ESPP. I don't need to go into the details of all those, but... Restricted stock units, incentive stock options, non-qualified stock options, and employee purchase plan stock options. Regardless of how they came to own these, the goal is to take an asset that starts out as income, because when an individual employee receives these shares, it's income of some type. And what we want to do is convert it from compensation to an asset that qualifies for capital gains. So what that generally means is you have to hold it for about a year to get long-term gains treatment. At that point, you can sell it and you won't pay ordinary tax rates. You'll pay capital gains rates, which are lower. So the goal here is to take low basis stock and convert it to a capital asset and then be able to sell it tax free and pick up an income tax deduction. A lot of times people hesitate to sell because of that capital gains tax. They don't want to see that value erode. So moving through this presentation. The first step is to take that stock after you've created the charitable trust, transfer the shares to the CRT. Upon transfer, you get an income tax deduction, and that's based on a formula that is determined by age, the prevailing interest rates in the marketplace, and how much income you want to be able to take out of the trust. Once it's inside the CRT and you've received your tax deduction, you then have the ability to sell and pay no capital gains tax upon sale. which is huge because I pick up a deduction of some amount, 10 to maybe 40, 50 percent, then I don't pay a capital gains tax. And if you had a million dollar capital gain, potentially you could save in California three hundred and seventy to three hundred and eighty thousand dollars in tax. And then if you pick up a 20 percent deduction, that's another two hundred thousand dollar deduction. If you're in the 50 percent bracket, that's another hundred grand. So we could save $480,000. thousand dollars in taxes potentially just by using this device. So once you've put the shares inside the trust, you have the opportunity to sell them and reinvest or diversify for income or growth or some combination of the two. And that income will result in a cash flow for the lifetime of the donor or donors. Now you'll see on this slide that we have a spigot. We can design these lots of different ways. A lot of the clients that come to us say, you know, I want to diversify. I want to eliminate capital gains tax, but I don't want to have more income right now. I've got plenty of income from my employment. So we design these depending on the circumstance so that we can turn the income on and off. And that gives us the ability to treat this kind of like a pension plan. So, you know, pension plan, you write off the dollars that go into the plan that grows tax free. Here we don't write off the dollars, but we don't pay tax on the capital gain. That's kind of like a deduction. And then having the ability to defer that income until we want to take it out, that gives us the ability to have control over the taxation and the cash flow. And that's very You would still pay income tax when you're taking that money out, correct? Yes. So what you're doing is you're able to take an asset and essentially put it into a different vehicle, not have to pay capital gains, and then be able to be able to control when that income stream comes to you. And so you are saving the capital gains tax on that whole thing. You're saving it up front and then you only pay tax on the income as you take it out, when you take it out. And you're absolutely correct. So a lot of people will defer this until they're ready to retire, or they may have a big event, or they may have an offsetting loss. A lot of times we have clients that, you know, they have an investment loss. They may want to pull out capital gains to eliminate the tax on the CRT distribution. There's a lot of different ways, and we work with all of them with our clients. So the last phase is that after the last income recipient passes away. Then whatever is left, again, charitable remainder trust. So it's a split interest trust. There's an income interest that go to the donors generally for their lifetimes and sometimes for their kids as well. And then there's a remainder interest. And the remainder interest is whatever's left in that trust at the second death, if it's a two-life trust, goes to a charity of the donors choosing or multiple charities. And. Oftentimes, we suggest to our clients that they set up a donor advised fund with a community foundation so that they have control, their family has control over the distributions in perpetuity. I love it. I love it. All right. You ready? Ready for questions? Absolutely. Do you have anything else you want to share from a standpoint of the breaking down how this thing works? Only that. There are lots of different assets that this works for. I wanted to use an example that was conceptually easy, but we've done lots of different assets, including real estate without debt. closely held business interests. I think we had hay sold in a charitable trust. My favorite one was we had a dairy herd put into a charitable trust. No way. And yeah, it was pretty funny. So one of the rules is that you cannot operate a for-profit business inside your tax-exempt trust. That's what a charitable remainder trust is. There's something called unrelated business taxable income, which blows your tax exemption. So the last thing you want to do is put an asset in the trust, sell it, and then it's an irrevocable trust. So you're stuck with it. And then you don't get the tax deduction. You don't get the forgiveness of the capital gain. And you've got the money that you put in the trust you can't access to pay those costs. So in this case with the dairy cows, what we had to have the owners of the herd do. is milk them in the morning and transfer them to the CRT in the afternoon and sell them in the afternoon because those liquid assets from milking the cows would have created that taxable income. It would have blown up the trust. So fascinating. Yeah, it was pretty funny. It's a really cute story because obviously liquid assets, milk, unrelated business taxable income, and all that don't often go together in the same sense. How would you compare a CRT versus like a deferred sales trust? I know of people that have a similar, you know, conversation and it seems very similar to me face value. So I'm curious what the difference is between a CRT and a deferred sales trust. A deferred sales trust. And, and I don't specialize in those, but we have, we have seen them in the past. My understanding is that you, you sell. an asset, appreciated asset for a promissory note. And that promissory note is, I guess, something that you can borrow against and you take that money and you reinvest it. I don't think you have the ability to diversify inside of the DST, but I do know that you can take the investments outside. I don't know if you have the ability to eliminate. the capital gain i'm sorry the tax or defer the tax on the reinvestments um but i would say a crt is under specific code section uh section 664 it's been around for like 60 years i i think it's safe to say that the crt is a stronger um when it comes to the tax code i think some of the some of the people that do dst is like it's debatable That's at least what I've heard, but it sounds very similar. So let me walk through each step. So let's say I am an employee at Meta, and I have millions of dollars of stock options. If I weren't to do the CRT, what are my options? Is it to take is it just to sell income? Or what do people do if they don't do this strategy? I just want to be able to compare because in a CRT, you're still paying ordinary income tax no and so i'm you're not when you take it out you don't pay any income tax right on the sale right right but compared to so compared to the person who's um so i want to talk about person a versus person b person a is not doing the crt right person b is let's say they person a and person b are identical they both work for meta they both have two million dollars of meta stock. Okay, you tracking? Yes. Person A does not have the CRT. How does that person take out income? Like, let's walk through a hypothetical example, and then let's talk about how person B goes about it with the CRT. Okay, so let's assume they plan to sell those shares. They want to diversify, and these shares are the ones they want to use. Right. Person A without the CRT in California would pay about $37,000, $38,000. percent. Let's use 35 percent for simple math. That's about $700,000 of tax. So our $2 million minus $700,000 leaves us with $1.3 million that we can generate income off of. The CRT individual, assuming they put it all in the CRT, which we're not necessarily recommending, but if they put it all in the CRT, they would pay no capital gains tax. So that $2 million would still be $2 million. If they picked up... the bare minimum tax deduction of $200,000, they would save another, assuming 50% bracket, they'd save another $100,000 in income tax. There you go, that they could write off their other income. Yep, so they could write off $200,000 of income with that charitable income tax deduction. So now I've got one pool of assets with Mr. A or Ms. A, which is $1.3 million. And then I have another one who has $2.1 million, $1 million, I'm sorry, $100,000 outside, $2 million inside. And my question to you, Caleb, is would you rather have the income off of $2.1 million or $1.3 million? The reason I walked through that example is that really made it come alive for me, is the person A versus person B, and most people that don't have this option are forced to diversify in maybe a non-strategic way. So then my next question is… Your money is in a charitable remainder trust. The word charitable is something that needs to be noted. I don't believe you can just take all that money out immediately so that you might be accepting a little bit of lack of control. I would like you to talk about that. And if in my understanding of how charitable remainder trust works, it works very much like a pension, or you have to come up with some type of annuitization around how much you can take out. And then I also believe that the goal is to be able to pass down that about 2 million, like if you, in this example, like you can't disinherit the charity. And that's why a lot of people use life insurance. I know I'm asking lots of questions, but talk to me about once the money's in a CRT, talk to me about how the flexibility of how you can get that money out. And then we could also talk about how life insurance is utilized because I believe Life insurance is utilized as a way to get more money out and still make sure that you're being in charitable and you kind of get your cake and eat it too. So let me, let me take it at the beginning in terms of control. Um, you can set these things up through a nonprofit or you can set them up individually. We have set all of ours up pretty much individually with our clients as the trustee. So the first thing is in terms of control. There are restrictions on taking money out, but our clients can direct the investments, hopefully with our guidance, because we've done a couple hundred of these or more. And, you know, we use our methodology for investing in risk management to optimize this for the client. So the first thing is they don't give up control. They give up some access. to the entire amount of funds. That being said, it is possible to blow these things up, but it's an expensive process. So I wouldn't recommend it. The second thing is when you talk about the use of insurance, usually it's so they don't disinherit their kids. The charity is not guaranteed $2 million in this example. The charity is guaranteed whatever is left in the trust when the second In this case, the second income beneficiary is gone if it's a couple. So that doesn't mean that you're going to necessarily have $2 million. And it also doesn't mean that your kids are being disinherited from $2 million. Because take our example where we had $2 million outside the CRT that we sold and we only ended up with $1.3 million. If we had $1.3 million to generate income versus $2.1 million to generate income, and we tried to spend the same amount, the $1.3 million will not be able to keep up with the income from the CRT, and it will diminish over time. So my question is, do we want to replace $2 million or $1.3 million, which is what we would have had after tax, or do we want to replace some other amount down the road? knowing that the taxable account is going to be diminishing over time as we spend it to support our lifestyle. But we do use life insurance and oftentimes we use the tax deduction as a way to secure a down payment on the life insurance. And then we use some of the income to fund the life insurance for the kids. Understood. So you're, I get that. So in an example of the person A versus person B. Um, you're, if you're taking $2 million, putting it into a CRT, you're getting some type of tax benefit for that. And that kind of goes into establishing the life insurance. And then part of the income, you could argue the extra income that you're getting because you have a $2 million instead of 1.3 is that difference is going to continue to pay for that life insurance, which for the. in intention to be able to have a greater inheritance for your kids you nailed it okay so now let's talk about the rules on crt and how much money you can take out um how what's the rules there is it just one of those like i've i remember correctly it has something to do with life expectancy but you like talk to me about how that works so there are two or three moving parts the first one is the age of the donors who are generally the income beneficiaries, the older you are, the shorter the time the charity has to wait before they get the money. So it's all about, and I'm going to use somewhat of a technical phrase here, it's the net present value of the future interest. Meaning if I put $2 million to a charity today, they get the money today. But if I'm 60 years old and I've got a wife who's the same age. and we have a 25 to 30-year life expectancy, $2 million in 25 to 30 years isn't worth as much as it is today. So the first thing is time does have an impact. The second thing is, how much income am I going to take out? So I have to take out at least 5%. That's the statutory minimum. But I have to make sure that the charitable interest is worth at least 10% of what I put in. The net present value of the $2 million has got to be at least $200,000, meaning that there's got to be a value in 30 years of $200,000 in today's dollars. Now, that doesn't guarantee they're going to receive it, but it's part of the formula. So it's what are the interest rates in the marketplace? What is the federal rate? How old are the... donor income beneficiaries? And then, you know, what is the payout rate? And those things, we do that routinely for our clients. I know it sounds kind of technical. It's not that technical when you, once you see the numbers, but it's pretty flexible. And when you say today's dollars, obviously 30 years from now, $200,000 has to be a lot more. Or are you saying that it would literally be $200,000 30 years from now, which would be a lot less than $200,000? You know, there's no finite exact number that the charity has to get. It's a calculation based on assumptions today. I understand. And based on the assumptions that if you were to get audited, you would have to back up. It's similar to like the Augusta rule. It's like if someone audits you, it's like, hey, why are you valuing your house at X per? It's like you would have to back up the why this calculation makes sense. Well, and that's why we. We have software that does the calculation. We work with a client's accountant. We work with an attorney. We also work with a TPA, a trust administrator who specializes in this, and make sure that we're reporting correctly, we're tracking everything correctly, and that we're actually taking the income as indicated properly. Now, I know I'm going to ask you something very difficult because you're going to have to make up something, which is not great. Compliance hates that. But we'll just say like, okay, let's say you're 30 years old versus 60 years old. Same scenario. 30-year-old puts $2 million into a CRT. 60-year-old puts $2 million into a CRT. Both healthy. Not sure if that matters at all in the calculation. What is the percentage base? Not investment advice, not tax advice, not CRT advice. I'm just based on like talk to me about, you know, if someone's young. the difference between someone, I'm not saying 60s old, that's still young, but you get what I'm saying. It's like, there's a difference there. So talk to me about 30 year old versus 60 year old and what they could potentially take out. And again, you're not running the numbers, but you're just giving us a baseline. So the first thing is that the percentage I quote is a moving target. It's based on the value at the end of every year. So the first issue you have with the 30-year-old is we got to make sure they even... qualify under the definition of the CRT to have one set up. So it might be that they have to limit their income rights to 5% of the value of the trust. So if we had $2 million, that's a hundred grand a year. But if we're growing it at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10%, they're going to get 5% of a bigger and bigger number. The 60 year old doesn't have those 30 years. working against them for income purposes and they may get a seven eight nine percent payout rate and still qualify the the thing that you have to understand is the higher the income rate the lower the deduction The higher the deduction, the lower the income rate. If you get to a certain point, if you're 80 years old, you know, we've got two 80-year-olds that we're talking to that have quite a bit of real estate without debt. And, you know, they can take 9% or 10% income or even more, but their tax deduction goes down. So, again, it's a matter of fitting it into the financial goals of the client. Is it more important to have the right to take more income or is it more important to have a bigger upfront deduction? Understood. Understood. I'm trying to figure out if I want to ask you a follow-up question or if it's just one of those because there's a lot to what you said. And I think in summary, it depends. It's obvious the older that you are, you'll be able to take out more. And the minimum, if you qualify for a CRT, is 5%. Yes. Say you can only take 5%, but if the charitable remainder trust is earning more than that, obviously 5% on $2.3 million is more than $2 million. And so that's obvious. And then there would get to a point where as you get older, there's a world where you could be able to start ramping up the distributions. Not really in a CRT because you pick your payout rate when you set it up. You can't change it later on. Now, we have clients that have done multiple CRTs over time, and as they get older or as interest rates change, they may be able to take more out. Understood. So you're essentially creating an annuity with charitable intentions with the ability to have control over where it's invested versus just having your money with an annuity company and the rates because you could make the argument that where annuities potentially could, well, I guess the CRT could literally put their money into an annuity if they wanted. Well, you can actually set up a CRT that's called a CRAB, a Charitable Remainder Annuity Trust, where you get a fixed income that lasts as long as you do or until you run out of money. And that, again, is a calculation we can do. Clients don't tend to like that because they want some upside. They want some potential. But we've had clients that have set up A charitable remainder annuity trust, because they had a fixed mortgage rate, they wanted the CRT, they want to put stock in the CRT and have it pay off their mortgage. I understand. And that was a no-brainer. As long as they were around, it would pay the mortgage for them. And I asked you this before. You mentioned where when you and your spouse pass away, then whatever's in the charitable remainder trust would go to a charity. That could either go directly to a charity or a donor advised fund, which obviously would give them the ability to potentially give over time, but they get that deduction. And I mentioned, does this work with a private family foundation if families have that? And you gave an answer, and I would love for you to repeat that on this recording. So you lose your ability to take an income tax deduction, generally speaking, when you have a private foundation. So if all you want to do is eliminate the capital gain, you could use it with a private foundation. But none of our clients have ever, the 200 plus clients that we've done, have taken that route because they want to be able to pick up that income tax deduction. Because what that does is it saves taxes outside the CRT, not just taxes inside the CRT. Yeah, understood. Understood. Okay, Rich, what are some of the... Cons or horror stories that you've seen with CRTs. I always love hearing context because in any strategy, I'm sure there's pros. There's also cons. I think one of the biggest cons that I can pick out is you don't get access to that full 2 million in the example that we shared. And so that actually could be a benefit because it's now you're creating an income stream. But if you're someone that like... seeks and wants control over all that money that that's an obvious con um is there any other cons out there before we go into horror stories that you would just be like hey this is this would be something that you would want to know before potentially looking into a strategy like this yeah i'd say on the low end you want to make sure that you have enough appreciated assets that it's meaningful because there's a fair amount of work that goes in you have to have the the CRT established by an attorney. You want to have a calculation of the amount of deduction. You want to make sure that you can pay for all the setup costs and still end up with a net benefit. But I think what's really important to understand is that this is not the only piece of a financial plan. It's a piece of a financial plan. So we would never recommend that somebody put all of their stock, if that was their main asset in a CRT. It has to fit in so that they have stock or they have assets outside and assets inside. We normally have a rule of thumb that we wouldn't put in more than a third of their investable capital. The other thing that I think is a con is... That if you want to have the ability to turn the income on and off, you have to use certain types of devices, either an annuity, and we've used what are called private placement variable annuities, where we can put in a whole menu of different managers. And you can change managers inside the annuity and diversify, and you don't pay tax. But when you take it out, it's ordinary income. The other alternative is that you can defer income by putting it into stocks that you don't sell. but that has risk attributes. So if you put it all into tech stocks and the market got hammered as it has so far this year, you might say, well, gee, I should have diversified maybe a little differently. So that's a negative. The other thing is how you define what you can take out of the trust. And I know I'm going deep in the weeds here, Caleb, but I want you to- I appreciate that. And our audience appreciates that because it's like big picture is great, but there's not a lot of people on YouTube talking about this. So I... Appreciate you spilling the beans. Okay. Well, if you're not careful, we like to have the broadest definition of income possible. So generally, nonprofits want to maximize the remainder interest for their benefit. We're more client-centric, so we're trying to maximize the flexibility in the income for the client. So we would define income as... Interest income, dividend income, and capital gains income, both short and long term. You can define it so that you eliminate capital gains and all you can get is dividends and interest or royalties or rents. But, you know, you can limit it however you want. So the problem is that when you have a net income with makeup, which is the one that I said that's kind of like a pension where you can defer it. if you want to start taking income out, you can always take out interest and dividends, but you have to make sure that you have a net gain at the end of the year if you're taking out profits. So if I sit there and I say, okay, it's January, my stock's way up. I want to take a bunch of money off the table. I want to liquidate them. If I pay out that income in the first quarter, And then I reinvested and I lose money between then and the end of the year. You technically didn't have the right to take all that money out. So we have to be careful. And you need somebody who understands these rules so that you're orchestrating your distributions of certain types of income to match up with what the law says you have to do inside the trust. What's the average age of the person that tends to lean into something like this? Well, when I started... you know, 30 years ago, it was a lot younger than today. And the reason I say that is a lot of the people that were in tech were, you know, 30, 40, whatever. And a lot of our clients have gotten older as time's gone on. But I mean, the average age is probably 40s to 50s. That doesn't mean that there aren't people that are exceptions in both extremes. But generally, that's the sweet spot. What's the most famous example of someone that's publicly used to CRT? I cannot give you their name. Okay. Well, I'm not saying for you, but is it one of those, it's like is Mark Zuckerberg or other people, have they used strategies like this? Yeah, I think. Again, don't quote me and hold me to it, but I believe. Maybe Bill Gates or I don't know if Zuckerberg did a CRT or not. That sounds kind of familiar, but I know that they are widely used. And I know that people at Apple have used them. People at NVIDIA have used them. I mean, these are a very common but not publicly prominent. Yeah. Well, and it's a good example right now as we record. The reason why some people would want to use them is like these some of these tech companies are getting crushed. You know, it's like you're like you're on paper loss. It's like you you you could lose a lot of money. And so there's advantages of diversifying. And this could be an amazing way to do something like that. Rich, I really appreciate you doing this deep dive. And like I said, I appreciate your willingness to give more resources and even the fact that we're able to work and collaborate with someone who's an expert in this space is incredible. Is there anything else that you would like to share? Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you're like, hey, this would be really important as we kind of like close this loop as it relates to master class around CRT? um Thank you, Caleb. I appreciate the opportunity to talk. I would just say that we are open to working with people that really seriously want to explore this. I would say that having done hundreds of them over 30 years, we've seen all different types of assets, as I've mentioned. I think the key thing is to put this in the context of your overall financial planning and make sure that it is an appropriate fit. The main thing to take away is that this isn't a panacea for everything, but in the right situation, it makes the difference. So we always talk about dividing our client's capital into two categories. The safe base capital is the stuff that you want to use to drive your lifestyle. The way we define safe base is the amount of money you need to drive your lifestyle forever, net of inflation and taxes without invading principle. which is a pretty conservative definition. If you set aside your safe base, and we oftentimes suggest that you use a CRT for a portion of that, it doesn't mean you can't lose money, but we can diversify and we can limit the downside risk. And then everything else is opportunity money that you can either give to your family, give to charity, do another high-risk venture if you want, or just blow. because you know that your safe base is taken care of. So that's where we see this as a core portion of a client's financial picture. The safe base is what protects you so that you can work because you want to, not because you have to. Another way to say that is if you have an emergency fund, an opportunity fund, the emergency fund, when it comes to retirement or income, is that stream of income that's coming in that you can count on. Yes. Above that is the fun money, is that you could afford to lose it if everything hits the fan. It's like you still have that base. Yes. But the hope is that that also gives you the upside to pay for that more luxurious lifestyle that you may desire. Can I make one more comment? Yeah, I mean, we've got time. Okay, well, you've got three potential partners for your asset. base, right? I mean, you've got three potential beneficiaries. You've got your family, you've got the IRS, and you've got charity. Which two would you like to partner with? So I might have to think about that. I think that's a pretty easy question to answer. So the point here is that we're not trying to pull a fast one on the government. These rules are here to encourage certain types of... Yeah. investments for the benefit of society. It's just, do you go directly to the government and buy part of a bomber that you don't get any thank you for, or do you get to select what part of society you want to benefit through a charitable trust? And so that's what we always say is you got three potential inheritors of your wealth, IRS charity, and your family pick two. Yeah. Rich, I love it. You just opened up a can of worms with me. I think one of the... things that the government could look into is create a master like a mastermind slash status and increase people's status by how much taxes they pay and almost make it be like hey you pay a lot of taxes like you get your status elevates and so instead of people trying to like avoid paying taxes they would go out of their way to pay tax so that they have higher status but that's that we're not going to solve that issue on today's show that's not how it all works and we still have potholes where I live. I'm reminded very well that I would rather keep the money and the family and the charities that I care deeply about versus sending it elsewhere. Rich, is there anything else you want to say before we close? No, just thank you. I've enjoyed this. I hope we get to chat again. Yeah, I know that there's other things that you specialize in. And so I look forward to creating a series with you. I'll just say if you're watching this and you're like, I want to learn more about CRTs and to see if the strategy works for you. We have resources down below. Rich has been so kind to be able to collaborate and work with what we're doing at Better Wealth. And so, Rich, thank you for just being willing to come on here. Thank you for your expertise. And I look forward to seeing how this video impacts and educates. the right type of person. So thank you. And I hope you have an amazing rest of your day. We'd love to hear from you as well. So thank you so much for subscribing, commenting. And if you have other questions about advanced strategies, let us know because we are committed to going and finding experts that are specialists at those strategies to be able to share it with you all. Without further ado, have a great rest of your day.
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