We Went Deep On Life Insurance & Infinite Banking Hannah Kesler

 It's not how much cash that you're putting into the policy, paying your premiums that should equal income, equal premium. It's what is coming out of the policy that guarantee the cash flow that you're able to receive from that policy. And I was like, boom, it totally clicked. If everyone took policy loans like what you and I teach, insurance companies would have a problem. And I think that needs to be talked about more. As much as I love the concept of becoming your own banker, if everyone did it, the question would be, what would the insurance companies be able to? Sustainable. Sustainable when I would say no. If I can help solve your need for financing cash while you're living, you will have enough death benefits to your family and ares. And welcome to the Better Walls Show. Thank you. Things are having me. I just interviewed your dad. I'm not sure if this is going to go before or after. And I gave him a compliment because there's people like Chris Nogel, Mr. Burr and others who might actually be more known on social media than your dad. But your dad was the one that that was the person behind the scenes making it all happen. So before we jump into an exciting topic of infinite banking, whole life insurance, money, mindsets, and a lot more, what is one thing you admire about your dad that you are you've applied in your own life? And like, how is your life enriched because of your father? Yeah, I was saying there's kind of two points there. One thing and I'm definitely a daddy's girl. I've learned that growing up, but also too, you know, as now because you have a daughter, probably April's going to go through this. But when your daughter is a teenager, you and the mom and the daughter, they is kind of butt heads. But now like even my mom is like my best friend like in my lifetime. But I think what I think that I take away from pops is number one, I think just his huge heart wanting to just share and give to people, you know, because his background, he never really had that growing up. I mean, yeah, his parents were very loving, very caring, but, you know, they had some hardships and even going through all those hardships, he still came out with a humbleness, a kindness to him that he just wants to share with other people as well. So I think that's one of the biggest things is that just his huge, huge heart that he always wants to give. And then also I would even just say how direct and blunt he can be. You need those people in your life. Yeah, girlfriend, you kind of do look a little fat in that dress. It's okay. And I think definitely in today's society where a little, you know, I guess, what's the right word? Like where, we don't want to be that authentic self just because sometimes, you know, you're scared of what other people might think of you or might say about you. But I think that's one of the biggest things about pops is that I love how blunt and direct he is. Yeah, sometimes he's made me cry before because of how direct he is. But I think that's a great character trait that he has that hopefully I'm also delivering when I'm speaking with clients or my friends, my family too. Yeah, he said that he started his first policy in 2008. Do you remember? Do you remember that or not a whole lot, but I do remember the times before the policy or lifestyle and then the times even after the policy and what really changed. I would even say not just material items. I would say my parents relationship got a lot better after solving money problems. And I think that's when it kind of clicked for me that, hey, I think something is going on here. They're doing something. You probably didn't know what they were doing, but you they were probably spending a lot more on their lifestyle. And then once they started this process, they they paid a lot less. And so again, if you if you don't know what we're talking about, we'll for sure air your dad's episode before this just so there's context. And so anyways, how did you get in this space? And like I want to I want to hear you have your own channel as well. I want to hear some of the things that you're you're learning what you're doing. We can dive into some of your insights around whole life insurance. It's interesting. This channel people like hearing about that. I've interviewed lots of people, lots of colleagues. You're a part of the money multiplier team. And so you know, Chris Noggle, Devin Burr, your dad and you know, the do's are all a part of your guys is amazing. And so you know, again, if there's if there's things that you're like, Hey, these are insights. This is the hand away of explaining or this is the insight, you know, but I would love to hear just a little bit of your backstory of like why you decided to get into this space. And then what were some of your epiphanies? And then what were some of the things that you learned through the hard way about money and about your life? I don't know for sure. Because right actually my background, I even have a episode on this on my show. I have a podcast show and I actually did a whole episode on the person behind the pod. And I think that resonated with a lot of people just being open and vulnerable with your audience. Because I was a terrible kid growing up. I got into drugs, alcohol, partying, you know, hanging around the bad I mean, it even got to the point that mom and dad almost sent me to military school. You know, I actually I went to three different high schools because for my sophomore semester or year, I went up to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, living with my older brother for a little bit because that was like, I just don't know what to do with her. It's kind of out of control. So, you know, I think what really clicked for me getting out of that phase is my older brother. He was actually living in an environment where it wasn't the best part of town. I mean, honestly, I would my getaway was going to the gym and I could walk to the YMCA just down the street, but I'd be walking down there and you would see needles on the ground. I mean, it was that type of environment that I was living in. I was like, Hey, I don't want to be doing this. So then that's when I came home and really got my, hopefully I can say this, but got my shit straight. So, so then after that, you know, I was I was always very independent. So, you know, I never leaned on mom and dad really for anything. I was really eager to even just get out of high school. I actually graduated high school early. And then from there, I actually got my first apartment when I was 17. Mom had to sign off on that apartment saying that she was the person leasing the apartment just to get out of my own because I just operated a lot better away from my parents. I mean, we still had a great relationship, but just living in the same household is just better for us to have our own living situations. You know, but then hey, I got to pay my bills. I got to pay the rent, pay the food. So then I was actually waitressing at Cracker Barrel. And I love that gig. And I was a real deal. I had like four stars on my apron. Okay. But but I loved it. But being in that environment, you know, I really got the taste of career waitresses who've been there for 10 plus years, fighting over $2 tips. It was kind of a weird balance because there would be young girls like myself who's, you know, 17, 18. And then you have your folks who are, I don't know, 50, 60's waitressing. So you kind of had those two groups. And you know, I didn't want to have that mindset. And they were just so negative fighting over these $2 tables. And you know, just kind of talking down to all the younger girls, right? And I'm like, okay, this is not my life. I don't be a waitress forever and ever. And back then too, I was doing a little bit of school. I was going to a community college. I was I love math. And so actually I was going to pursue being a CPA. And so I was taking some accounting accounting classes there. But I was like, you know, this just isn't fulfilling me. So my, what I would notice is that my real, real passion, fashion design. So back then, even there was one time and pops was in the business. He was traveling around doing his life speaking. We went to Savannah, Georgia. He had an event in Savannah, Georgia. And I wanted to tour the Skad school out there, Savannah College of Art and Design. And so we did that. And I was like, Hey, this is something that I really, really want to do. But then dad sat me down. He says, Okay, but in order to do this, you're going to have to go get some student loans. You're going to have to go to the school for four years. And have you even looked up what fashion designers make? You know, I mean, back then, I would go get a student loan for what? Maybe 200, 250,000. And then once I lead college, now I'm going to go find myself like a 35 for designer. Well, how much does college a year? That seems a little high for. It was right around like a hundred for the year for the year. So it's a designer. And what's an average salary that someone's making as an anywhere on the low end 45 high end 70. So that's not a great investment. And not a great investment. And it's really hard to get a job that's like not only do they not pay like that well, but it's hard to it's very competitive. And so so it was that like a good, by the way, great. And that's a great experiment to do just period like whenever you're thinking about for your future, look at the input of your time, money, all the, all the energy that's going to go into getting you to what you want. What, look at that as an investment. Say like, what am I putting in? What am I getting out? And almost put a run a calculator on it. And not to say that something if it calculates more than others that makes it right. Like you should do what you love. But at the end of the day, it at least is another factor that you should factor into a decision. Exactly. Exactly. And that's when I don't think like people my generation think about or even talk about. Yeah. Because I was like, well, hey, I'm just going to be working backwards now. I don't think I want to do that. I kind of like my lifestyle that I'm living. So so I said, all right, well, mom and dad actually called me up one day and they said, hey, well, we need help in the business. Do you want to help us? And if you don't want to help us, that's totally okay. But we're just going to go find somebody else. And I said, well, okay, well, what do you want me to do? And then that's when I started off being an application specialist, taking all the applications for the policies, getting folks through the underwriting, which I think is like the best place that they really introduce me into the business because you got to understand how these underwriters thanks. There's so many practitioners or life insurance agents out there who are just want to go sell, sell, sell. But you got to understand how your person that you're in a partnership with actually thinks when you're going through the underwriting process to approve these cases, right? So I said, okay, well, let me help you. So that was helping them do the applications. And then that's when I got the idea that, hey, well, now that I'm learning a lot more about money and wealth and keeping the wealth for myself, let's just play it this way. Let me go build up my resources. And then once I have those resources, I can now invest my time, money and energy into these hobbies, like starting to boot teak. Actually, my newest biggest thing is that I'm really into craft beer and just the signs behind all the makings of the beer. So even in my future, I want to have like a bar cage, like a brewery arcade type of place, right? So all right, Hannah, let's get our resources straight first. And then we can go out and have these hobbies now. And hopefully the idea is that those hobbies will be profitable, starting those businesses. I'll still keep funding my lifestyle of what I'm doing now. But totally opposite and backwards to what we've been taught, right? All right, I should go out there, go to college, get a degree. And then hey, once I'm at a college, I'm going to go find a really, really great job. But a lot of our people that we know in our generation that's not working out right now, is it? So kind of forgot the question, but that's good. That's kind of where I'm at. You have your dad's ability to just start going. I love it. All right. So let's talk about, obviously your dad's very passionate about life insurance and the process of banking using life insurance. So when did you, when did you like, when did it click for you? And when, when was the, what was the epiphany for you? And when it clicked? Yeah, I think utilizing the policies. Yeah. You know, I think the biggest thing is when I'm able to save the money, being able to control where I'm keeping it and not having to rely on others, whether it's banks or other people to help me in a time of need. I mean, honestly, my first ever policy, I started when I was 18 years old, because that's when dad came to me and says, Hey, you're old enough now, because you got to be 18 or to own a policy. Now that you're 18, you're going to start this policy and you've been saving up about $100 a week. That's 400 a month. So you're going to start your first policy 400 a month. And back at that time, I don't, I didn't know everything that I know now. And actually, I knew enough to understand like, okay, base premium paid up addition. Why are we overfunding the paid up additions and not the base premium, right? And I actually are even to remember getting a little frustrated with dad because dad was designing my policy 60 base 40 paid up addition. And then it's a now kind of having that like epiphany sitting here right now thinking about it. I understand why some of my clients are even like, Hey, hey, I want as much cash value. I'll put it into the PUA because it's just their mind's not there yet. They're not thinking long-term. Why what is the pitch of having a higher base? So that later on in my life, I can keep funding that policy because the whole idea, right? And I guess where do I want to start? The paid up additions, they're going to have to be forced to drop off later on down the road anyways, right? Because you got to drop them off to avoid the mech. I'm assuming the first policy that he designed and have a termwriter. No term writers. Okay. So, so the, okay. Yeah. Then that's correct. Yep. So, so those paid up additions have to drop off later on. Well, aren't I using my cash values of my policy today to create me more wealth so that my income keeps rising. I have more cash flow that's coming into me and I'm going to have a place, I'm going to have a need to want to place and warehouse that wealth somewhere. And so I love high-based premiums because at my life right now, 24 years old, going to be 25 in August, I got a long life to live and keep working. And so, I'm not going to slow down and I'm going to have a need to want to warehouse that money somewhere. And when I have those stronger foundational base premiums, I can keep storing the capital in there. And then that's really what keeps thriving the policy in those later years of its life. Actually, I'll tell you, I haven't even told my dad this yet. But right now I'm looking at a policy. I'm thinking about starting at about 10,000 a month. And I was really looking at this thing. And I was thinking to myself, well, okay, Nelson always teaches us that your cash has to flow somewhere. Income and premium should equal. And actually, I had a really great conversation with the gentleman that we know, Mr. J. Lo up in Canada. And I was asking him about that page. And I said, hey, what does Nelson really mean when he says premium and income should equal? And Jason really got me into this mindset that no, no, no, it's not how much cash that you're putting into the policy paying your premiums that should equal income equal premium. It's what is coming out of the policy that guaranteed cash flow that you're able to receive from that policy. And I was like, boom, it totally clicked because now if I'm going to be able to start this policy, let's just call me 25. And when I'm 65, that's 40 years in the future. And so when I get to that time of 65, I looked at this thing, I'm cash flowing out at least 600,000 a year from just this one policy, not to mention my seven other that I own right now. So, you know, and on that policy, the reason I bring it up is that policy is actually built as a 50, 50 policy, you know. So that's why I just put so much into the base just because it's the it's the long haul. This is a lifestyle. It's a process that you're going to keep incorporating forever and ever. And so I'm just not going to stop. Right. Do you, you know, I didn't ask Chris, Stefan or your dad this because again, like you're behind the scenes, you you've started, you know, in the underwriting, but like you understand product design at all, you guys still like, what is your philosophy when it comes to designing policies? Is that is that like, is that the case like higher base? Because yeah, I just want to hear your thoughts on that. Yeah. No, no, everybody's different. I always say that there's no one silver bullet out there. You know, somebody who's in that financial hamster wheel, living the paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. No, probably a high base premium's not going to solve their money problems right now because that's the ultimate goal. How can I solve your money problems? So some policies, heck, maybe they are a 25 base 75 paid up additions, but that doesn't mean that their next policy may be 40 base 60 paid up additions. So I don't think there's any right or wrong way when designing policies. I think it really comes down to what is that person's needs and goals and how is this policy going to best suit that individual and worth are at? Yeah. So then again, we should have part two where we'd go into the numbers on this. We've had clients that have higher base, but that normally is because the death benefit deal. Normally it's like a higher base because they have a death benefit play. They care maybe less about the cash value and more about the permanent death benefit. In my what I've seen when it comes to running the numbers, I have not necessarily seen that event having a higher base gives you the ability to save more when you include, you know, a termwriter flexibility on that. And yes, we do. We are projecting in the future 30, 40, 50 years. Yes, that termwriter is expensive, but we're at least we're comparing it today. And so it would just be interesting to see like, okay, doing it that way versus maybe doing like a 40 or 50, 50 blend. Obviously, I would just love to see, love to see long term and the pros and cons on that because I think when Nelson wrote his book, I don't think he talked anything about termwriters. And you could make the argument that a termwriter is less conventional. It's something that you shouldn't do. You know, I want to ask you a question about term insurance in a second, but what are your thoughts around around that? And what have you, what have, what have been some insights when you look at the policies dive into the numbers? What what has been like the overall like, is there a design like the 4060s like that? That that Nelson talked about is that the thing that's like, hey, that's the default or they're like, how is the money multiplier teams like generally looking when it comes to funding their policies? No, honestly, all across the board. I would say my philosophy, if I don't have to add a termwriter to a policy, I'm not going to add it. I would rather have my dollars going towards the base that builds me cash value or my paid up addition writer. So even if I can design this policy like max split between the base and the PUA without causing mech, maybe it's like a 3070 type of policy, right? That's my in my personal preference, my favorite. Now, I got a lot of real estate investors I work with. People who call me up all day long saying, hey, Hannah, I just sold a property or an investment got paid out or maybe I have some inheritance money rolling in. I got this cash bucket of about $200,000 and I understand the importance of running it through my policy or my banking system first. But Hannah, I know I'm not going to do $200,000 every single year. I'm more comfortable doing, I don't know, 2000 a month or 24,000 a year. So in those instances where folks are doing like dumpins inside their policy, you've got to add term writers because it just makes sense to it. But that's why I always say that there's not one silver bullet out there. I would say for my philosophy, you know, if I got that person that's got that boatload of debt that they have going on, it's going to be more like a 2575 and you're going to have to add term whether you're liking or not in most cases. But if I got a person, like gentlemen just got approved actually yesterday, he's 30, you know, he's just wanting to save the money somewhere, you know, he's really not in the cash flow bind. He just wants to save his money and then be able to utilize the cash for investments. So hey, that policy is designed just exactly how I described max split between base and PUA without having to add term. So I just term, I understand that we can convert the term with most carriers, if not all, but you can convert that term into a permanent whole life policy. But I would rather leave open that insurability to be able to go out and get myself more premium based PUA. Which which actually I want to double, I believe and again, because you're saying, hey, I'd rather have my dollars go to PUA or base towards policy. I see the term writers the same thing. I'm giving myself the ability to put more into PUA, which, you know, I would say from my ability to pay towards a permanent policy, it's it accomplished as something similar and we could talk about efficiencies, pros and cons. But you do make a really good point. If you put a term writer on, you're increasing the death benefit so so that you can stuff more into PUA's and it doesn't make the problem with that. And I know I'm throwing a curve ball problem with more death benefit problem with that is if you're trying to put a ton of money into life insurance, like some of your clients are putting in almost all of the money that they make into that. You know, hit a problem because the insurance company or is going to say, well, we can't issue any more life insurance because you can't be worth more dead than alive. So you have a first more problem in your scenario to say, oh, I can't like, I can't actually fund more life insurance. So you do have a good point that if you have that philosophy, a term writers can bump up your death benefit, which can create an ability where it's like you want to put more like money in the life insurance, but you can't what you could do though is you could just find other people with insurable interest still own the policy. So it's like there's an even your dad said like he owns policies on other people because potentially he's at that place where the insurance company is in one issue, more life insurance on his life. So it's just one of those things where like that is the one point that I would can acknowledge because the having a term writer does bump up your death benefit, which in a lot of cases playing devil's advocate is a good thing. It's a really good thing. And that's one of the reasons I'm a big fan of it is you get you get your cake and eat it too. You get you get more life insurance and you get more liquidity. But again, if you're seven, eight, 10, 15 policies in, you may have to you may have to shift to another place. So that's well, and then actually that might be a great segue because I know you want to talk about some term insurance. I love convertible term. Same. Now a lot of people talk about convertible term enough. You know, they just it's straight term or or you know, I think we need to get more educate on convertible term and because there's a lot of people that are way underinsured. I agree. And that's what my question for you and we actually own convertible term.com. I love that and I'm excited to continue to leverage that domain and and and because I'm a fan of term insurance, especially the term insurance that gets you options to protect your family. Your dad was saying, you know, he's like, Hey, even if you had $200 a month, you know, to fun. My question that I didn't ask him just due to time is when do you say, Hey, actually just buy convertible term, protect your family and give yourself the ability to convert when you have more. We, unpopular opinion maybe, but like I don't really like to start a permanent policy. You can't fund at least $10,000 a year. I know that's crazy. But like so we tend to take the approach. If you if you only have a couple hundred dollars a month, fund get a term insurance policy, put the rest in a savings account, build up at least $10,000 and then front load a policy if you want, want to start. And so you have your protection, you have a front load versus paying like $200 a month. The downside to that is sometimes, you know, you lose momentum and that person might never do that. So I want to hear your thoughts around how you guys utilize term insurance. If someone has a low premium like 100 to 100 $300 a month, will you start a permanent policy or do you make sure that they're human life values in place? Hey, it's Caleb Williams here. I'm just interrupting this video quickly to invite you to check out our NS at vault. You may have been there. We've actually revamping it. And if you are somebody that wants to learn more about is life insurance right fit for me. Does this and that's it makes sense? Like does this actually help me be more efficient? We've put together a 10 minute documentary style video. And I can test a really, really good job giving the history why the end asset, different setups and designs that we use. And then we have an NS at all that gives like case studies, calculators, handbooks and so much more. We are here to serve you whether it's a conversation, whether it's education or the video. So make sure to go check out and asset.com slash both. Learn more. No, I will. And then here's my philosophy on that. Me personally, I just don't trust the banks. I don't like the banks. I don't like to keep my money down at the commercial bank. Personally, I don't even keep more than three months of my overhead expenses at the bank. If I see that there's more money sitting there and I'm not going to be using my money within about 60 days, I'll go pay back some policy loans just to safely warehouse the money over there. So I think that's where maybe I'm a little different in that sense where I teach my folks that we should be saving or keeping at least 10% of our income. You know, if somebody's profiting a hundred thousand a year, you should be saving at least 10,000 of it. That's 835 a month. So, so that's kind of where we start off by first and in you'll you probably see this too. A lot of people don't know where their money's going, how it's flowing. I am a huge advocate of rocket money. I'd say all the time in my show, rocket money sponsor me. Because I use that app and I love it. It does all of my tracking, tracks all of my spending, the different categories. Now look at and say, oh, Hannah, you kind of ate out a lot this past month. Let's kind of dial that back a little bit. But my favorite section on theirs, it tells me how much is left for savings, the dollar amount and the percentage amount. And that's how I know that I'm ready for another policy because I've been on this incline of of money's coming in that I'm like, hey, my percentage is going up and up. I need to move some of this money because I'm maxed out my other ones. But so when people come to me, that's what we kind of look at first as they're budgeting. Hey, are we keeping or saving at least that 10%. Now I tell my folks to get started in this concept 10 times your age. If you are 50 years old, 10 times the age is $500 a month. Are you worth 500 a month to pay yourself first to go and put these monies inside of this policy? So 10 times the age is when people ask me, hey, what's the minimum to get started into this? But really, there's two other ways that I look at it. The first one is our net profits. Okay, so if I'm the type of person, let's say I'm profiting 10,000 a month and my expenses are 7,000. Well, why might leave in the leftover three at the local bank and the bankers are making profits off of my money? I'm going to start by shifting that's the keeping the savings dollars. That's the money that's going to start flowing towards the policy. So that's kind of where I get them in the mindset of, hey, the policies just are glorified savings vehicle. That's all that it is. But then also for more of my upper income, net worth people, what are you just spending in taxes this year? How can I recycle that money that I'm just sending to the government every year that I have to pay them? So why don't I just use my policy just to pay my annual tax bill? So that's kind of how I get them in the mindset of utilizing those baby steps to then project into the life. Have you ever had anyone getting in trouble because they're too aggressive on life insurance? And then they're like, hey, they have outstanding loans. They have things from an income standpoint fluctuate. And now they feel like they're kind of squeezed. Does that ever happen? So it's happened once. I have one individual. But that's why I think it's so important to talk about the flexibility of the policy. Hey, can we at least make that minimum base premium? Right? So as long as they know that minimum base premium of, hey, this is what I have to save. Because even if someone's doing an annual premium, they can always switch it a monthly or do quarterly, right? So that's always an option to create more flexibility. There's a lot of flexibility for sure. Um, question for you around term insurance. Do you guys recommend people getting their human life value in term and shirt like, how do you, how do you address the, because you could fund $200, $500 a month in life insurance. The way that you structure it might only be like $300,000, $200,000, $500, $400,000 of death benefit. You might have a family that might I hate using a word need. But from a needs analysis or a wants analysis should have three to four million. Yeah. What is, how do you address that? Yeah. Well, and then that's where even to go back on the last question. That's why it's so important that we have the implementation team, the mapping team there. So that's just a resource that we do for all of our members where we are meeting with that person every single quarter, not just once a year or twice a year. We're meeting with you and checking in with you every single quarter to stay up to date with the windfalls and the downfalls in life. So if somebody's having a downfall and some part of my friends again, but if shit hits the fan, you know, we are there to help them and strategize with what they have with their policy. So most of the time the focus is, you know, just based on that person's needs, whether it's debt payoff, they want to invest with the money, save in for a large expense. But as that relationship builds with their money mentor and then also the implementation team, I would say about around month eight to nine is when that conversation starts happening of, all right, well, let's look at your family and all of your assets here and how much death benefit you have on yourself. Are we underinsured? Do we need more? Can we afford that convertible term as well? Right? And so that's kind of when we start having the conversation. Cool. Cool. So is convertible term and ensure ability coming first or is it a secondary thing after they like, what's the order? Order. Number one, solving the money problems. Okay, the cash flow problems. Okay. Number two, then we get into the insure ability problems. Okay. That's interesting because I would say, I would say we try to do a mix. Obviously you try to do both, but we definitely we've, we, that's probably where we flip because I would rather have someone get their insurance taken care of with the ability to convert for to cash flow versus the the difference there. So that's that's a that's interesting. What, what have you, I have so many questions. And actually Caleb, that kind of reminds me though, but I guess why we're a little different there's because my philosophy is always, if I can help solve your need for financing cash while you're living, you will have enough death benefit to your family and ares. And so I follow that. But I think it takes time, right? It takes time. If you're starting at 200 or three, like where you and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you're like, okay, if someone has 200 or 300 dollars, we're going to start a policy. We're going to figure out their cash flow thing. Then when they are cash flow things figured out, then we're going to buy more life insurance because it's disciplined. Right. Whereas I would be like, okay, let what is, what kind of life insurance do we need? Let's make sure to secure that. And then let's figure out, do you have an additional cash flow? And then we go to converting that term in tranches from a standpoint. So that there's not there's not a right way or wrong way. I just, I just like, I think again, part of the risks that we have in the insurance space is if people like we are in the protection business. And so we want to be able to make sure that people that are clients, at least they're signing something or at least they're aware that's like, hey, they talked to someone that represents life insurance, at least they they're signing off and saying, hey, I'd rather do a permanent policy and not do the term insurance. And here's why. So I don't know if you guys do that, but it's always fun talking through the different perspectives that people have anything. We don't get these conversations. You're all the way in Denver. Well, and the, and Nashville, but the thing is, this is what I love because we go on podcasts all the time, but like we only can go high level. We can't go deep like this. And so we got to have more conversations like this. Is there anything that your dad or the money multiplier team teaches that you disagree with or like, and again, I'm not here to try to create drama here. I'm just like, is there anything that you're like, hey, Chris says this, but I disagree with that or your dad says this, I disagree with that or Mr. Burr or someone else on your team teaches it. And I do because the reason I asked that question is I think it's really valuable for people to contrast like what are things that you taught early on that you that you regret and all and I asked these questions because there's wisdom in like in the sometimes friction disagreement versus the we all get along. We all agree a lot of times there's less growth there because there's no stress on on the muscle. Yeah. Yeah. I would say the biggest one is, hey, put your money in and then take it out right away right now, now, now, now. I just when folks are saying that I get it, I get why people want to put emphasis on it because when they're teaching it to the public who has never heard about this and stuff, lean just a mindset shift, you know, they teach it in that way just to get the point across the liquid money. Hey, in my definition of liquid money is I can turn this asset into liquid cash within 30 days. So that's my definition of liquid. But so I think there's some people in in this space that sometimes over glorify the put it in and take it out right now, now, now where I don't think if you are in a place where you don't have any use for the money or maybe you're saving up for something, I don't think there's any better place to store that money than back inside the policy. And then also y'all pay back your policy loans, right? Did we hear that this this week? Wait, what you, you know, there's some questions I want to ask about that. But it's just just what you're referencing the insurance company that we're we're listening to the person the executive he's like, he almost made it sound like outstanding loans or bad thing from the insurance company standpoint. And and if you think about it, if everyone took policy loans like what you and I teach insurance companies would have a problem. And I think that needs to be talked about more. And I'm hoping to talk to executive to say, Hey, this is all great. But like what are the downfalls if this message gets out to more people because insurance companies are cash flow business as well. And the reason they may or may not like get loans is yes, they're making interest on those loans, but they're able to make more out elsewhere. So just like that's why we take loans is to be able to make out out elsewhere. So it's just like there's a double edge or double edge sword. And I think that's where it's like as much as I love the concept of becoming your own banker kind of deal. If everyone did it, the question would be with the insurance companies be sustainable sustainable. And I would say no. So it's just it's just one of those things that it's like it's interesting to say that out loud. But I don't think we have much to worry about mainly because the reason I say that is in most insurance companies less than 10% of the entire portfolio is outstanding loans. And those are those are the ones that are probably high banking style. So so the reason why it's not a huge concern is like there's so many people that have traditional life insurance that don't ever plan to take it for income or or take loans against their policy or just even you know people who want to use policy loans right away for paying expenses monthly. You know I think there's some me personally I don't do that. I go put the money to work and then have those investments paying my lifestyle people funding their life insurance policies and paying their cell phone bill and grocery bill and immediately. Yeah, but you you are a fan of people paying their lifestyle expenses because I'm in my retirement years. Okay. Yeah. Taking out those tax-free withdrawals at that time maybe not even withdrawals at that time maybe I'm just going to still keep taking out policy loans. I'm still a conversation with myself about that. I mean you have to worry about that right now. But but I write off the bat. It doesn't make sense to me right. I mean what if I'm going to go spend a hundred bucks at the grocery store and taking out policy loan I'm paying 105 bucks right. I just think there's better ways to go put that cap rule work even harder to create those passive income streams. So then come the time of retirement and I got my cash flowing assets plus the policy cash to fund the lifestyle. Yeah. Anything else that you would like to to share from the standpoint it's great crazy how time flies when you're having fun. But anything that you're like hey these are insights or I saw that you were reading the psychology of money. Is there anything that you're learning or thinking about that you're like hey this would benefit an audience that knows about life insurance that may has heard about life insurance that we can go a level deeper but less about life insurance and more about life like just for the record life insurance is only valuable because of the tool and the reason I talk about it a lot is it's just not talked about a lot and it's very misrepresented that's why I talk about it but that's at the end of the day I'm going to be talking about lots of other things but I just want a solid foundation base of content like this so that I can send people back and say hey watch this for perspective. So anything else that you would leave our audience and you're and you're young so any if you're speaking to someone young some of the money principles that you've learned what would those be. You know what I was actually thinking about this this might be TMI I was thinking about it in the shower just not too long ago but money is so simple isn't it crazy how simple money is but but all of the noise and the BS that baby boomers and other generations older than us have learned throughout their lifetime or maybe trusted financial institutions government and then they have to go in and re-sframe their mindset or rethink their thinking that it's harder for them to grasp these different philosophies and ideas about money and so I don't know if it's just because of my age or because I kind of make the joke I've been around the stuff since I've been like pooping in my diapers but but it's so easy and simple if you just understand how to keep the money that you're already making that that's what people fail at they just think that hey if I'm start making more money or doing more riskier investments or whatever that I'm going to be profitable and more and more and thus my expenses start rising I go buy nice fancy cars and go do all of this stuff and I like to show off but but it's just like I think the biggest thing is is that money is so simple don't over complicate it and keep the wealth that you're making it doesn't matter how much you make it only matters how much you keep and I think that's where people kind of lack it's good Anna you're single correct I am what do you have a list of like ideal person and there's a lot of people watching this listening to this and they're probably like oh my goodness like is there anything that you're like my future spouse has to have x, y, and z checked it and hey if you find if you get hit up and they say better well podcasts at least give them a day at least give at least give them a phone call that's my ask no no no because because honestly I do not want to get back on the dating sides I got into a two year relationship that should have just stayed like a sorry mom but one night stand right so so I it's hard especially because I mean what do people are aged do I mean people go out to the bars that's where you'll meet people I don't want to go to the bars all the time and go do all that shenanigan stuff right so most of people that I'm actually meeting are at like these conferences right when I go out and I speak and they're in the real list what is the list if you had to come up with like the top five things that you want because because again my hope is if someone's watching this and they're checking some of the boxers now your show is turned into like a dating service mask listen listen I try to help out my friends no no I would say definitely wanting our goals of line I would say the number one or goals of line I would have to say you know that it's still want to have fun they still have that child like energy within side of them definitely hands somewhere yeah they got to be good looking and they got to make me laugh right um hard working the hard working has a good hard work ethic but but also just supporting what what I'm doing too you know I actually there for a while I actually thought that I wanted like a house husband I was like well I can do this all my own I just need somebody to cook my meals and do my laundry make my bed every day be the kitty cats but um but no I've I've learned that okay Hannah that's not what you want you want to need cool right um but I would say number one is that our goals have to be aligned for instance in real short story it's just like I look at my dad and I look at my uncle dad's brother uncle Toug is totally happy living on a sailboat being a botanist sailing around but then dad you know has other aspirations where he's very he's a plain enthusiast right and he he likes to travel and he wants to go visit this house and then next week anyone's go to that house which is totally fine you I think that's what's amazing about us living here in this god-given earth we call America but but you know my person they just need to line with my lifestyle my goals and my values in that direction and I think that's where I've been kind of lacking in my exes well I look forward to seeing what the future holds and and who knows this stuff gets seen by lots of people and uh the the money multiplier has a huge movement and community and so you're you're loved and appreciated and so Hannah any final words that you have for our audience no I just say you get you on my show so um I'll hit you up make it happen yeah and we got your event coming up here soon so I look forward to it and at probably at the time of this recording it's already gonna be done but I just want to say if you are a producer if you're someone that's like watching this and you're watching this actually because you want to help more people like there will be a link down below I'm sure uh just as a call to action whether it's our feature events or there it's something else like I would just encourage you please please reach out like we want to help you whether you're a consumer and you want to understand like how to incorporate life and trends in your own life and your family or if you're someone that wants to like get into this career in this business or in this business and want to thrive we'd love to help you communities everything communities everything Hannah thank you so much thank you man