Are We WRONG About Whole Life Insurance With Brock Fortner

 What argument might just not understanding like why is it everyone doing this? Not everybody needs to buy whole life insurance right off the bat our media does show all life is bad You shouldn't do it like that is a big force and I don't think a lot of people realize like We've been indoctrinated to think of that and until you do an actual deep dive into what's going on? Who's to tell you that you're wrong? I'm gonna say something that's gonna get me a lot of hate on the internet rock with all due respect I don't have the conviction that some of your clients have about giving money to my kids. Yeah, does it still make sense? Brock Fortner welcome to the better wheelchair and Caleb Williams. Thanks for having me We had to come all the way to Austin to do this show. Yeah, we live about 30 minutes apart Yeah in national Tennessee, but we never see each other with the running joke as we see each other at other people's events That's right. You've been to my event a couple times. We're actually at Justin Donald's lifestyle investor Events and and we both were on a panel yesterday talking about life insurance and what was really interesting Is when we were talking about life insurance right after lunch, which is worst time to talk and you would think on it like life insurance Like boring topic The energy in the room was like the highest easily and it's not even I'm not even biased here like people were very interested in learning topics And so I want to hear your life insurance framework Pretend I know nothing, but I'm open. I'm like very open I want to be the best with my money. I'm making good money. I have assets in different places Why like how would you if I'm open to listening to you? How do you even open that conversation and walk me through? Because I think this is what I need to do more right because I want to hear different people that have different perspectives Share it their way because that there might be something you say that clicks with someone in the audience That's maybe been watching me for three years. Yeah waybrox said it makes increases my conviction or clarity. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that You know a lot of times when we do this marketing Yeah, it's it's mass marketing so we're gonna put out the best of what we can do But oftentimes like not everybody needs to buy whole life insurance right off the bat Right, so oftentimes I think that when you're looking at your full financial picture There's steps in what you need to take like Rule number one are you saving at least 15% of your paycheck? Right, so if if you're not like how do we grow our income or how do we Reduce or eliminate some of our expenses that might be destructive expenses. So we can start saving How do we have an emergency fund of at least you know three to six months? Right and then when it comes to the protection How do we get the maximum amount of life insurance first because if I were to ask you know your wife April And I said hey if Caleb passes away today, how much of his income would you want replaced as much as possible and for how long? As long as possible and that that right there determines the amount of life insurance that we should strive for first Yeah, and I think that that is where we start with term insurance Once we then move to a place of hey, I've got my emergency fund already built out I'm ready to go and I'm saving more like what do I do next? Then we get into a further conversation of all right Well, where do we house our money? Right because there's a big difference between saving and investing And before we go to any investment in this world outside of a employer 401k It has to go to a bank account first. Yeah, that's right And so if we are going to be investing for the rest of our life Hopefully and we're going to continue to make more income Wouldn't it make sense for us to put money in a place that we know that it's going to continue to grow. Yeah It's guaranteed It's protected and it's liquid if we need to get it. All right, so we're going to build it out We're going to start saving money through premiums of our life insurance policy to build out our cash value And as investments comes along Then we can utilize the borrowing function of life insurance to get into these assets Because at the core we got to talk a lot about this yesterday is You know when most people don't have the life insurance in place They're going to continue to save money and they're checking your savings account And then as an investment comes along they'll deplete that account. Yeah And move it into the investment. Yeah, well does the bank continue to pay you interest on that money when you pull it out No, well, what if right before we went and put it in the exact same investment We just transferred it into our life insurance first before going to that asset right well When we buy assets the hopes are it's either going to pay us cash flow It's going to grow an interest appreciation and one day it's going to come back to us Whether it's the next quarter or next month next year 20 years from now like we want it to come back to us And it's going to go to a bank account For me, I like investing in cash flowing assets. Yeah, right because I want to build a lifestyle where My passive income exceeds my lifestyle expenses And so if I know that that's going to a bank account Yeah, might as well begin to store that within my life insurance so I can continue to repeatedly do that without interrupting the growth of our money Yeah, I love it. There's so many things that I want to say love the fact that you start with saving The even building up an emergency fund news flash you don't need your first Emergency fund to be in a whole life insurance policy There's there's wisdom and like put that like let's build the muscle And then that can eventually be transferred over to a whole life But doesn't have to be overnight and then love the fact that you're focused on protection And talking about and I don't know if you said this but like your human life value and and the questions It's like how long would you how long would I want I would want as much money for as long as possible Regardless of who's getting it. It's like that that's the example of like the value of my life Absolutely, and I'm either gonna make a lot of money while in the live But if I don't if I can have a contract that ensures that it's gonna happen like that's just another way of thinking about it But then when we talk about like a store a place a store capital It's it's interesting because if you're really analytical you can look at a high yield savings account and say I in the probably in the first 20 years probably could get maybe a better Arbitrage and a high yield savings account and then take that money out and invest and so I just play devil's advocate with me here So so the the people especially that talk about infinite banking they almost make it sound like there's this magical arbitrage and there's there's not But what's but but then I on the flip side? I'm gonna kind of be in their camp for a second There's maybe not a magical arbitrage. Yep. Maybe ever but we'll just say in the first 20 years But there's other benefits to insurance 200% and and if you understand the permanent death benefit if you understand the value of creditor protection If you understand the value of taxes what are what's the tax situation going to be in the future? I don't know. No, I'm not doing so adding all those things up rock We literally like that it there's a it doesn't even hold like nothing holds a candle to life insurance And that's my hope is when I get a chance to debate big name people That I can like take them through this. Yes. Yeah, I understand Maybe a little bit inefficient in the first couple of years compared to a safe account But like I want like can if what is the pitch like what's the pushback if someone understands the control liquidity They understand after the first couple of years you actually have more money than what you put in and you get all these other benefits and You get actually a long-term better growth rate So it's it's less of like the infinite banking people saying like there's a slight arbitrage which can be misleading But when you start adding in all the other benefits and insurance there's massive arbitrage What where am I going wrong and why like what would be the pushback if we are talking to Someone that just thinks life insurance is a scam like what would they be like? I've never heard of that or what like what am I not seeing or what argument is Am I just not understanding that like why is it everyone doing this that can by the way? Yeah, I think we would both agree that 90 to 95% of people need to focus on making more money and I can be saving Yeah, so like just to be clear. I'm not endorsing this firm mass strategy But like people that can save money like why wouldn't they do this if they're thinking long term If they're thinking long term, I'm not really sure why they would do it because a lot of people They do get hung up on the like the fact that first four maybe five maybe six years You don't have the same amount of money that you put into the contract But the you got to take a step back like okay. Well, what are you comparing that to right most people are comparing it to a 401k or Sometimes investment account. Well, if it's something like a 401k will You are only comparing those two in a stagnant place Which is the only thing a 401k can do is stay stagnant and grow within the account Whereas with the life insurance if we wanted to we could access and then create something else with right If it's an investment account or your heads a little skewed because this isn't an investment Yeah, this is a saving vehicle so that you can do both I actually think that's our trump card because if we can't play that card then you then you go down to Is there something that outperforms you have to out you know when you factor in tax benefits and all those things But the reality is it's an end and so that that creates so much more flexibility that you it's not an investment But if you did if you didn't have that liquidity and control Yeah, we wouldn't be able to say the same with conviction. Well, yeah, absolutely absolutely and I think you know A lot of it does have to go to the fact that our media does show that hey, you know All life is bad. You shouldn't do it like that is a big force and I don't think a lot of people realize like We've been indoctrinated to think of that and until you do an actual deep dive into what's going on Who's to tell you that you're wrong right everybody else saying that you're right? This is bad You shouldn't do it like you got to actually question You know what it is that you're doing you're you Learned on a lot of different systems. I believe truth concepts. I'm not sure if you're familiar with circle of well But leap is the thing that you your dad is was a trainer in and and you've done multiple Workshops with leap can you walk me through like what that is? What are some of the biggest takeaways that you've learned from Bob Castelone? But is there any like stories that you would walk through? I know that we don't have anything that you can walk through on a computer But like there's a lot of lessons there and I'm just curious if there's anything that we can now go to point out Because I think we covered 1.0 but now let's go to point 0 and to Blowing people's mind around our own life insurance. Yeah, I think you know, so leap is a lifetime economic acceleration process That's all that I know when it comes to financial planning and how it works why it works and all the other Not concepts with the planning systems are from that which is fine except for infinite banking and You know, I've spent a lot of time with Bob Castelone a lot of time in the system I use it today with all of our clients and I think that you know It's built mainly from an economic standpoint not a financial planning system, right? So when we first understand that we all have our own personal economy and we compare it to our world economy if we were to Look at everybody's life and say you know what everybody just hoard every dollar that you have and just get the miracle of compound interest Our world will shut down immediately, right? So what we want to do is we want to have that velocity of money We want to be constantly trading dollars for value, right? The more that money moves the more value our economy has the greater it is the stronger it is Yeah, why would it be any different for our financial life? Yeah, right? So we want to always increase our maximum velocity for our money right and when I think about leap and in my thoughts around financial planning a lot of it is around how do we reach maximum money supply and maximum benefits at all times and most of the time when it comes to Financial planning it's all about you know, how do you buy term and save the difference? No matter what way that you shape it up most people the default structure is how do you buy term save the difference so that You're not putting as much money towards the life insurance You're so you can have a much larger nest egg during retirement Well, if you get all the way to retirement you've done everything that you were supposed to and then you cancel your life insurance Well now that bucket of assets that you have the money in the bank now has to act as your life insurance and your Your self-insuring. Yeah, you're self-insuring right and so what that does is now you have to become You know, you have to be a product of Safe withdrawal rate and right now, you know people argue it's somewhere between three percent four percent But what that means is you know if you had a million dollars in the bank Safe withdrawal rate is four percent well, you can only take $40,000 out And so that's gonna be taxable right could be taxable it could be You would fluctuate with the market volatility. You don't know. It's going on with inflation You don't know what's going on taxes. So you think through those those pieces and That is your hope is that it just works out And it like that money lasts as long as you do and the one that you spend your life with right if you're if you're married They have a partner So the way that we look about it is how do we purchase permanent insurance and do investments? So that when we show up at retirement We not only have investments in the bank. We also have permanent life insurance right next to those assets in the bank And so if we can show up with a one-to-one ratio of assets to life insurance or asset insurance that means we can take a more aggressive Spendown rate from those assets. We say one-to-one. You're talking cash value cash value to asset value or death benefit Death benefit to asset value. Okay, so you're talking if you have five million dollars of death benefit You five million dollars of other assets. Yes, okay, absolutely And so that's what we would strive for is having five million dollars in Death benefit and five million dollars in assets in the bank right most people would say we'll block you spent money on the whole life Insurance so you have less money in the assets. Well, we were just walking through a client the other day And I'm I'm a big profiner and if you don't understand the concept you won't understand the numbers Yeah, they won't matter and yeah, Todd Langford is the one who taught both of us that You know, you can show up. We were looking at one the other day One person a showed up at retirement with four million dollars in the bank Interest only at 4% taxes at 20% you know, and we ran it to age 8 65 to 85 And then we took the same person they had three million dollars of permanent death benefit And because for some reason when you put money in a whole life insurance it goes in a black hole and you lose it all and don't know where it goes He had three million dollars of assets in the bank Well that person with the three million dollars of assets in the bank had more income During retirement if tax to stay the same or if they doubled yeah Interest rates got cut in half and Both times is when you have that permanent life insurance death benefit in place that allows you that gives you the permission to spend Those assets down because it's going to be replaced to the next person in line Yeah, let's double tap on the permission to spend Something that you say or we have a friend Todd Tom Wall who wrote the book permission to spend but it was very much taken from this concept It's explaining your own words Permission to spend because I believe if people understand the power of life insurance in Retirement which you and I both hate that word but like in the in in the future cash flow years There it's all just another reason why it's such a great asset. Yeah for I mean you don't have kids and you're not married And you still have you put a lot of money to a lot of money. Yes, we're the most salaries Yeah, and so like that just as people would be like why do you do that? Well, you're doing that because you not only are benefiting today But like you're you understand that for your future. Oh, yeah, you're gonna be set up So let's double tap on permission to spend. Yeah, so let's let's say this Like let's say that you found out that you had a long lost uncle that just passed away You got this letter in the mail that says Caleb next month you are going to get $2 million in the bank wired to guaranteed like you know it's coming. Yeah Would you probably spend money a little bit differently today? Uh, yeah, I mean I would I would this is what I would do is I would Spend money or invest knowing that that two million is part of the situation Exactly, so that's the same thing when we have that permission to spend with our guaranteed death benefit is We now know that our errors are gonna be taken care of whether that's our spouse partner or our kids Yeah, we know instead of holding on for example the two million Instead of me holding on to that two million and maybe not being as efficient with that Yeah, I could literally they're spend it or maybe be more aggressive with it if I wanted knowing that I I have that replaced in life insurance. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely because when you when you think about those who cancelled their life insurance And all they have is their assets spend I mean it's I've heard it's pretty scary when it's like well what happens if our money runs out Yeah, that is your main goal is to make sure that's the only sense if you don't care about legacy like I want to be as a friend's possible Like there's some people that are listening to this that they're like I don't necessarily have the conviction to give money to my kids There's a book by I think it's Bill Perkins die with zero and his whole deal is like hey live Wall you like live it up and he's I think he's a fan of annuities and some other things So what would you say to the person that's like Brock with all due respect? I don't have the conviction that some of your clients have about giving money to my kids. Yeah, does it still make sense? I would say yes if you want to maximize your income because then you think about The nerdy side of it around mortality credits and in an actual aerial science of if you know that Let's say that you show up at that retirement and you've got that permanent life insurance there Well, then you can still spend all of those assets. Yeah Throughout your retirement. Yeah, if you have a couple down years in a row at the beginning of retirement Because it's a sequence of rent. Yep, you can say it's like you know another way it could be a better bond Yeah, it could be a much better bond or let's say that you Went crazy you spent all that money from 65 to 85 In your still life. Yep. Well now you the all those 20 years you haven't been paying in a life insurance Well, it's a contract. It still continues to grow Well now you can turn to your life insurance and now you have you know However much in cash value to spend tax-free for the rest of your life and at the end of the day if you know you want to give it to Who knows who then go for it. Yeah, all right. Let's talk about some of the things that you roll your eyes at or get frustrated at on Take talk or on Instagram or on YouTube What are what are some things to be careful over beware of in the world of people talking about life insurance That's a there's a there's probably a lot out there putting it on the tee for you. Yeah, don't miss. Yeah You know a lot of people have been brought bringing me some things lately about Oh, well, I can just pay my tax bill with my life insurance cash value I probably wouldn't go with that. I can take vacations. I grow shoes all this. I don't appear on the side of that Well, you're accumulating wealth use if you're going to have the cash value Use it for cash flow producing or income producing assets Things that put money back into your pocket so that you can replenish that cash value and go do it again, right? for me And while you're building wealth there's no reason for you to use your cash value unless you have to To use it on these things that you know, they'll create memories absolutely 100% But they're not bringing money back into your life. There's no economic You so in another ways to say it if if I want to create memories by cars Um, pay my taxes. I should just do it out of my cash flow or Savings account. Yeah, just do it out of your savings account. Okay cash flow. You don't subscribe to the people that are Telling you to drive your retirement Probably not okay. Okay. Just I'm just I'm just I'm just curious from a standpoint of the There's a people out there that are very flashy when it comes to an infant banking and I think that could be very But it's not necessarily the insurance problem. It's mainly the behavior problem Yeah, absolutely the behavior problem and I think you know right now the hot thing on tiktok I think is you know, you should replace your 401k with your life insurance and this or that it's going to be the greatest Retirement play out there like yeah If you have the 401k, I'm not a huge proponent of it, but yeah, like you would recommend caching it out I wouldn't Rebecca men probably caching out if Garrett Gunnersome was sitting here and We were talking, you know, what would you say to him because I think he would disagree with you I think he's publicly said and again, yeah, not putting Garrett on the spot or but he's he's like a 10% penalty to get your money out of the government Yeah, absolutely what but I probably a more In alignment to you and less like someone has crazy conviction I'm like hey, I'm not maybe as extreme on that But I also like personally, I think you and I are in the same boat. I don't have a 401k I don't offer a 401k to our to our to our better wealth That you might think I'm crazy. I think there's better ways But I'm not also saying like 401k's are evil. What would you What would you say if there's other people like our good friend Garrett who's like hey? I think you guys are crazy You know, I think we agree to an extent. It's like yeah If you're going to cash it out have a reason for why you're gonna cash it out and something that you're gonna do Yeah, right? Yeah, don't just cash it out. Just go put it in your savings account Yeah, if you're gonna do that might as well just keep it in the 401k because then yeah might actually do something with it later Yeah, I think that you know if you're working and you struggle with discipline A 401k is probably gonna be a good idea for you because that might be the only thing if you're not disciplined That could be there to save the day when you do go to rich. That's right. It's sad to say but there's a lot of people That should not have control. Yeah, they're money. Which is like sucky for me to say out loud But for me to be delusional enough to think that everyone is gonna make great decisions and note like some people should Listen to other people out there and they should be forced to say they should be out their home because at the end of the day Those are the things that are gonna save them I'm also not endorsing that this is the best way. Yeah, but I also I'm not like I know that we live in a world that not everyone is watching podcasts like this Yeah, and that's the other thing like most people do not feed their brain what they should be Yeah, right there just focused on TikTok or whatever else and I like some TikTok But yeah, there's a there's a point where like you've got to feed yourself with what's going on and somebody told me once And this I hope this doesn't get taken out of context, but they're like hey if you don't love on your money now How is it gonna love on you later because retirement is is literally your money is taking care of you So if you don't take care of it now while you're growing your wealth then How are you gonna expect that it's going to be there when you retire? Yeah You have any questions for me or any things that you want to call me out on I'm I'm a I'm a target from a standpoint I'm on on the internet saying a lot's of crazy things anything that you're like hey challenge you on this or Is there anything any questions that you have no? I don't think so I think one of the things I keep getting myself in this we always say no, I don't think there's anything but then we yeah It's just our filibuster like let me think through this question. Yes. Yes So one of the things and I think this is becoming both of us are communicating better on this is You know back in the day we probably bashed a little bit too hard people like Oh, well this guy's selling this policy because it sells a high commission Yeah, you have to go work with somebody that's gonna cut their commission as low as possible Yeah, and I think we have both grown and learning in the fact like that's not always the case right like there are some instances Where you need to or want to sell and all-base policy. Yeah, right? Let's let's talk about that because I agree with you We at better wealth have sold all-base policies But we what we talked to the but in that situation was more in a state situation and this person saw a ton of Situation so they made that decision and it was and so there's instances there But I also on the other side I very much empathetic to the two we see people that are like hey I came I talked my agent. I wanted high cash for the life insurance in some cases. They had term insurance or whatnot and their design Uh, didn't feel optimal. Yeah, and it was frustrating. Yeah, so how so let's talk about it because I'm glad you brought it up Yeah, and yeah, so wait what is the framework of how designing policies and What is the pitch for higher bases? Yeah versus lower bases? Yeah, I think that that really is the conversation because the higher base does pay more And and if there's better benefits for someone that shouldn't matter People shouldn't care what we get paid and they should what the best yeah product for themselves I've just found in a lot of cases that Giving a lower base is like more flexibility in my opinion I It seems like there's better growth long term and so like those are the kind of things that I'm like if I could if you could show me a different way I would I would love that because we all get paid more for yeah for doing the right thing. Yeah, absolutely So when it comes to let's if it's a higher net worth person. Yeah It's it's probably better that they have a higher base because of certain Tax calculations when moving things in and out of the estate per the net death benefit But then let's say that you are a high W2 employee can we can let's let's say that a different way. So you're saying a higher estate is better for high net worth person Because why so And we probably don't need to go too deep in this. You could probably have Vince to don't yeah Vince you're welcome to come on. I was just please so we'll do 10 9 these verses of then so we'll see Yeah, if I survive that dude that dude has more designations than any person I've ever met That right sees in the estate planning hall fame like all kinds of cool stuff But in a higher net worth person's life We often need to remove things from their estate to save on estate taxes and Life insurance is depending on how you put it in the estate take it out of the estate on the trust and And take care of notes There's a tax calculation on the net death benefit and there's this really long word that I'm going blank on right now and But that is oftentimes needed and overlooked by other people because it's just like all let me just tell you the highest You know cash value policy that you could get but then when they go to Move things in their state. Yeah, it causes some in my and again Vince would love to have Vince on here Maybe the three of us jam or maybe we bring your dad on I have four microphones in Tennessee. So let's do that The the just me speaking out loud normally the disadvantage of starting with a High early cash value a lower base is you have a lower initial death benefit Um, and then and then usually you have a term some type of term that maybe decreases But in a lot of cases a lot of things that we've seen is in 30 years the death benefits about the same And then in in a lot of cases the death benefit actually increases because the cash value is far greater So that's where I would just love to know from if is there a difference between or is it just one of those if you're super wealthy You just want an initial high death benefit and so that that's yeah, and we can maybe do part two But I'm very much curious about that That's probably a part two because I'm still beginning to that's things that we're still learning okay I interrupt the use of the next next situation. Yeah, so another situation could be you know Let's say that you are somebody who's putting a bunch of money in their 401k Yeah, let's say you're maxing it out, but you also are saving money other places. Yeah, well If I were to ask you you know on your 401k Deposits on your on the money that you're depositing in your 401k Is any of that guaranteed to continue if you get disabled? I think it answers now. No, right? So if we can take that same thing that you were sending to the 401k And create that in your base premium of your whole life policy Well, we can often acquire disability waiver of premium. Yeah, that says hey the life insurance will take care of this premium Yeah, if in the event that you become disabled What is the do you know the cost difference between that per dollar versus just getting a regular dipolicy per dollar Um efficiency standpoint from an efficiency standpoint No, but what I would say is so on the disability insurance you can get up to 75% of your income Yeah, but most of the time when you get that disability insurance You're not able to save any more money. Yeah, and you's probably if you have a family like they need to be saving some money Somewhere else your proponent of both. Yeah, so I'm a huge proponent having it. So let me say this another way So um the waiver of premium that we're talking about Usually in most companies you can't get that on the entire premium You can only get that on the base premium. I think there might be only one company out there that maybe allows you to do so based in term premium usually the argument is is if you're hyperfunding a policy and majority of your premium is in a pua and a term rider. Yeah, and you value the waiver of premium from a holistic planning standpoint And something happens to you if if in this case as well Just say if in my case scenario the waiver of premium would be a lot cheaper But would only provide let's say 10 or 20% of the What you've been paying or contributing each year if you get disabled and if you were to do a higher base Yes in the earlier years because I would think we can all agree that the policy would maybe have less cash value Maybe even over time it might have less cash value But you would be able the waiver of premium if you got disabled would be able to pay A that higher base is that am I I just don't want to put words in your mouth. Yeah. Yeah So that disability waiver of premium helps okay that that savings for your family if for is I think it would be really good is for us to put Part part two on this because I'm gonna say something that's gonna get me a lot of hate on the internet. Okay. I I am a fan of waiver of premium But I guess I don't value it as much as maybe I should and we should look at it because the way that we like I'm I'm looking at life insurance and the way that we're structuring it There's so much higherly cash value So much flexibility even from day one a lot of times if something happens we can land the plan So so for me it's like I would love to see The pros and cons because I think it's I think it's an amazing Point I just I would just love to know like how valuable is it? I think we would all agree that's like okay But we don't do a hundred percent base, but if we did it you could a hundred percent So it's like there's there's a balance and I don't I don't know if you know the balance I sure as I'm talking right now. I don't know the balance. I don't think it would be tough because every single person is different Elthreading like yeah, even like the live insurance amount like I I couldn't get but events was here Would he make the argument that you could say that's why you should do a hundred percent base is because the waiver of premium is maybe got I mean there is a point to say like if you're funding that and you do actually get disabled in year seven And you have a paid up at 65 and you're young that insurance company is gonna pay that entire premium to age There's an argument to be made that That's incredible. So I'm that's what's tough about this whole thing is You could also have a waiver of premium never use it That's awesome, but now you created an extra drag And so it's like if we had if we had a magic ball and no knowing the future We would be able like buy a ton of life insurance the day before we die and look like a genius. Yeah, that would be awesome And you know the other places that we might see a higher basis like if You know, you know that you might be making more income down the road and and We can set your policy in a way that you do have early cash value But you know that hey down the road will probably be able to put more in so your Mac limit your annual payment limit Maybe a little bit bigger. You're you're saying not have a term writer just do a PUA and base blend Which which would most likely result in a lower death benefit than if we added a term writer to it And you're saying long term That would give you more options to buy more insurance. Whereas a person over here may max out their insurance pretty quickly because we're doing a term writer Uh, probably not no, I kind of what I was saying there's like Having a higher base in term writer, right? If if those are sometimes higher our annual payment limit within the policy could be higher So if we have the availability of like we know that we have x amount of dollars that are going to be coming in later Well then hey, we know that we could probably take care of that and we won't next the policy or Have to go get a new policy that is that is a talking point I'm one I would is there anyone that I can talk to that because I know like there's other people that remain nameless that like talk about that They're like hey adding a term writer to whole life insurance is like I well like they'll throw that statement out And I but then when I talk to the whole life insurance carriers They're like you're not gonna mac a policy on accident like it is very hard to like So it's like we almost like in a way they're like you know, you know, like you're gonna mac a poll and it's like man You got to mean You got to really not be paying attention in your team. It can't really be paying attention But but again like I We don't we both don't like I well for the same reason of creating levers and if It would be in the reason I'm talking is I would love to give clients an option to be like hey Here's the disadvantage of having earlier cash value and more flexibility. Yeah, did did did do and unfortunately you're totally right I am more heavy over here because I'm trying to put myself in the other person's shoes to say what other like what are the reasons would you do this? Right, but I'm grateful for your dad and you and like that's where I like part two and actually document this because There will be people to watch this to say I love that yeah, they'll work with us. Yeah, we'll set it up and watch you make more money in the product Like that's like yeah, it's not bad and that actually is like incredible Yeah, all I care about is does the client get the best result. Yeah, the client gets the best result like yeah Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know you there's there's other instances where like sometimes on juvenile policies I because yeah because they're under you know, you know You guys run on the $10,000 kind of earmark is like if your premiums are so low it's Gonna take a lot of that cost of the insurance So sometimes it is better to have those higher-based premiums within juvenile policies And there's some people that all they care about is death benefit play a permanent death benefit play And if that's the case you could go as far as to just get guaranteed universal life Yeah, and but on a form of that is just all ba like so there's a lot of different ways to position this And that's why I think it is important to work with somebody that Can understand what you're trying to accomplish and then give you different scenarios I've seen Yeah, even in my own life I have one policy that's all based really yeah, I have one policy that's Uh Really heavily funded and then you know my term insurance. What was the play for you in your 20s to do in all-based policy? Um, I knew that I was gonna be making a lot more money throughout my years and and I was so young that I was like, let's just go ahead and do based because I'm gonna outpace this and it still drops from my account every month And it's it's basically my emergency fund now like I have had it for nine years haven't touched it once But it just sits there and I knew you have waiver premium on it Not that one because it I mean the premiums okay Six grand a year Yeah, so but my but my other yeah my larger whole at palsy yeah, I have waived or a premium on that one Rock, I could talk for a while just on all this kind of stuff What else what else is on your mind from a standpoint of as we wrap this thing up? No, I uh you're right go in no, I don't think there's anything nothing but let me do something Yeah, anything else that like you're seeing that you're on the internet or things that you want to set the record straight I think we've covered it all of you know Don't think that your policies just gonna magically make you wealthy. Yes. I don't that's a big one Yeah, I believe like you shouldn't if you're just starting out like there's no reason for you to be using this for Your daily expenses like this is not a checking account, right? And don't think that this is going to be you know Oh, this is my bucket of money that I'm gonna pay all my tax bills with right yep Yeah, and mainly because You're just you're you're never getting ahead it seems yeah, it's like how you're going to yeah the idea of buying an asset is that asset Has a game plan to replenish the quote unquote bank yeah Yeah Don't cancel me for using that word you know But but if you do taxes, it's like you're almost like you're all you're always working behind so you have to figure out a way to quote unquote make that right yeah Other things that is I'm certain to see pop up a lot right now as more people are talking about oh, just pay yourself back Like yeah, we're paying the insurance company back. Yeah, the interest is not going to us. It's right It's going to the insurance company and you've got to understand that I've never understood When in infinite banking when people say recapturing the interest can you explain that to me because I've just I I've never understood actually what they mean by that like I Um, so I when when someone says recapture interest like and explain to me in your own words like what that means Sometimes that is a little bit difficult for me, but I think like the easiest the way that I tried to think through it oftentimes is um, you know, I think it's in the in the book But one of the things is like using your policy for a carla. Yeah, right Well I could see this working out if the bank is going to charge us 8% and the payment is $500 a month But if we borrowed against the policy and the policy loan interest rate was 6% And we knew we were going to use the money anyways and we had the money Maybe we have an instance where you know, we borrow against our policy paid for the car and cash But We use the dealerships 8% terms to pay ourselves so we get that spread from the 6 to 8% That's where I would say maybe we capture the interest. I think what they what they're meaning And again in the comments, please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it's the The like you're just paying the insurance company, but you're paying yourself back That's how a lot of people would say it and instead of paying the evil bank of America 6% like you're paying you're paying The insurance company which you're an owner of And the divot so I get I think it's like I just like the word efficient like long term this more efficient Because it's just I think a more accurate word But I understand on the banking terms like paying Recapturing paying yourself back those are things those are words that are used to simplify Simplify things and I and for that I'm very grateful. Absolutely. I You know chat GPT like the top books out there on whole life insurance and becoming your own banker was in number one I don't know chat GPT knows like my search history or something. What were some of the other ones? What were the rock fellers? My book made the foot and again, they're like hey We know who's writing this yeah Pamela Yellen's book. Yeah, Kim Butler's live your own insurance And so there's there's a lot of other other good ones out there But it's just interesting the like but going back to the number one by a long shot is Nelson Nash becoming your own banker And I think both of you and I both 100% Appreciate that man's work and what he started is there anything else in the infinite banking space? Because I know that we we have a lot of friends a lot of colleagues See a lot of marketing in the infinite banking space like is there anything else that you're like hey This is this is the thing we laugh about when we're talking to our friends But like why do you say that or or is it is it just don't don't buy don't pay taxes and buy cars to your life insurance Yeah, I think we could probably think someone could be over aggressive by funding too much in a life insurance Absolutely like I don't think you should put a hundred percent of your income in the policy Okay, yeah, I like if this should this ought to be a savings allocation. Yeah, you shouldn't put a hundred percent Yeah, so that shouldn't even be the goal is to redirect a hundred percent That's yeah, because life happens in yeah, and if you can't come up with it Well, guess what you're in the hall now you the reason is it's not because cash value is not great It's because you're creating in a lot of cases you're creating such an obligation Yeah, fund your life in transparency that that becomes a liability Yeah, yeah, it is an obligation because you have a premium for at least seven years You want to take care of it and there's some flexibility on how much you do yeah on help that you could get but yeah You have you have a YouTube show with Nate Nate Dean and Brandon Godwick. Yeah, well We'll plug that down below and anything else that you want to want to plug we will plug below Yeah, I appreciate you man. Thank you for thank you for coming on the show Thank you, and I look forward to future conversations. I look forward to part two Vince your dad you and me I think that'll be great and maybe we don't have to travel us and maybe we'll just travel 30 minutes to my home Yeah, set it up. Yeah, we'll do that. Thank you. Thank you