Box House is the world's first redeployable home. Every single one of those homes has generated positive cash flow every single month since it was put in service. Talk to me about one of the best advanced tax strategies on the market. Bonus depreciation is back to 100%. So if you were to go purchase a vehicle today for your business, maybe you put $10,000 down and maybe that vehicle costs $50,000. When you get to tax time, you're not deducting $10,000. you're deducting the whole 50 which is exactly how this works you've probably heard more than one cpa say this if you're high income w-2 there's nothing we can do about it i've heard it a thousand times and it's not true where do people go wrong when it comes to advanced tax strategies there's numerous places where most people go wrong most of them are very very weak when it comes to material participation in the maui fires hurricane helene and palisades happened Over 2,200 structures, most of them being homes, were destroyed. The federal government reached out to Box House and said, hey, we will buy as many of these homes from you as we possibly can. You told me it was personal. Unpack why solving homelessness is personal to you. Ten years ago, I was homeless. I remember making a promise to my maker in that moment. You can help me get a home. I'll help as many people get houses as I possibly can. Your best case scenario is you purchase one of these units, you get a massive tax benefit this year, you help out people in need, and you generate positive cash flow for years to come. Your absolute worst case scenario is you purchase one of these units and you get a year to purchase one of these units. You're going to fund a trust with $800,000. That trust is then going to purchase 99% of a series LLC, and that series LLC is going to purchase the box house. and the way that it does it, is it uses your $100,000. I want to do my best to set the stage of what someone watching or listening to this can expect. This is a time of the year where people are looking for tax strategies. And I believe that not only do you have something that is worth looking into from a tax benefit standpoint that you've said that has been one of the most rock solid tax strategies out there in your opinion, but you're also working with a real estate or personal property slash asset. It's really attractive. And you have partnerships and relationships with the U.S. government that is like creating a perfect storm. Right. We've known each other for a couple of years. You've been the person that has run a very successful accounting firm. You've had lots of people that you've worked with doing advanced tax strategies. In fact, years ago, I gave you my tax plan. You're like, hey, what are your thoughts? You had your team look at it and you shot most of the things down, which is code for you were just uncomfortable saying yes to a couple of things that I brought to you. So fast forward, you come to me and you say, hey, I've discovered this thing and I'm working with this thing that if it turns out to be legit, is going to be a game changer. And it has something to do with box houses, which I want you to unpack. You're working with actual box house company that has patents, the ability to fold up a whole unit in a shipping container, ship it to natural disasters and places. So that's interesting. but you're also taking the benefits of the big beautiful bill and 100 depreciation and even saying you don't necessarily need to be um materially involved yourself like a lot of times that people will say you need to like have 100 plus hours real estate professional a lot of people that are doing real estate strategies require you to be a real estate professional and it seems like you've figured out a way to get the benefits of a real estate professional with maybe not having to go through that And then on top of that, you've created, there's a massive demand because of natural disasters and because of some of the other things that you're talking about. So you were sharing this with me. I actually went and visited Box House and saw firsthand some of the things that you guys are building. And I'm on a mission to share as many things as I possibly can with my audience to make them more aware. I want to be very clear that this is not tax advice, not investment advice, not legal advice. We're going to be talking about potential for cash flow. We might be talking about potential for some significant tax strategies but this is youtube so um this is educational purposes only take this to your cpa team i believe your team's available if someone wants to learn more they can reach out but i just wanted to set the stage before we jump into the presentation that i asked you to share is there anything that you want to color in before we jump in that i said that i may have misstated or like talk to me about why someone should watch and listen before we jump in. Yeah. I mean, first off, we're making a huge impact in communities that need them. I think it's important to talk about what is a box house. Box house is the world's first redeployable home, and we are the only home on the market that can be deployed in a moment's notice. has a kitchen and bathroom in it, meaning somebody could live in this home long term. On top of that, we have a unique position. There's a patent that says we're the only company that can ship and store a home inside of a shipping container. And so think about this, if you're a real estate person and you're investing in a piece of real estate or selling a piece of real estate, your market is somebody that wants a piece of real estate in that area. We have a piece of real estate that can go wherever it's needed. And so it just... it just opens up so much opportunity and so much potential. It's awesome. And then how did you get connected with this whole situation? I mean, you don't own or run Box House. You didn't found Box House, but you're very close with the owner of Box House. And talk to me a little bit about your story of just being in the tax world. I think that's important to hear before we go into this. So yeah, give me a little bit of like your backstory and then how you discovered this. Well, I'm an entrepreneur. So for about the last decade, I've owned and operated a fairly large tax and accounting firm, tax advisory firm. And as an entrepreneur, I early on saw a huge need in the market. I realized that what most people hire an accountant for is to save money, save money on taxes. And what most CPAs bill their time for is filing tax returns and doing bookkeeping. So on one side, we've got these people are like, my accountant sucks. I want him to save my money. They're the person that's qualified to save me money. but they're not saving me money. And the accountant's like, well, why would I save them money? Because I earn my revenue to file their tax returns. So I want to sit in my office and file tax returns all day. So I kind of changed the business model to where at my firm, essentially saving people money on taxes was what we did. And filing their tax return was just how we show them that we did our job throughout the year. And so I was able to grow up from this small accounting firm to... a nine-figure firm. I had over 3,500 clients, active clients nationwide. They were all business owners and high-income earners. And so the better that we got at serving our clients, the higher income and higher net worth they became. And we got into a position where we had a real need for advanced tax strategies because you can only do so much on a tax return until you get in the advanced stuff. And I'm an entrepreneur. My partner's a CPA and you've met him. He is like, He is like the most conservative CP on the planet. And so my job is I would go out and I would find these advanced tax strategies and that amount. About half of the time I could tell right out of the gate, like this strategy sucks. Like no way are we offering it to our clients. And the other half of the time I would take it to my partner and I would say, hey, poke holes in this. Tell me where it won't pass an audit. And we had one rule. And that rule is if we can find a hole in it, the IRS is going to be able to find a hole in it. And so if we can find a hole. we don't offer it to our clients no questions asked and and we wound up in a position where you know 99 out of 100 times my partner would come back to me like hey it's got this whole weekend you guys were a big firm you were serve people nationwide so anyone that had a tax strategy they would come to you guys because if you guys could help promote it to your your clients it would be like a gold mine right so you guys would be getting pitched all kinds of things i'm I'm just curious, when you say advanced tax strategy, What do you mean by advanced tax strategy? Because I think I know what you mean. These are things that are an addition to the Augusta rule or home office deductions and maybe like deductions from your business. But how do you define advanced tax strategy? And then where do people go wrong when it comes to advanced tax strategies? Yeah, an advanced tax strategy is something that allows you to leverage what you put into it in a sense. So let's say, for example purposes, you invest in an art project with $100,000. they then leverage that by getting an appraisal on it for let's say 500 000 and then you donate that and so for your hundred thousand you get a five hundred thousand dollar deduction and there's there's numerous places where most people go wrong um most of them are very very weak when it comes to material participation so like equipment leasing programs there's these solar projects that a lot of people invest in where it's like you put in a hundred thousand it's gonna save you a couple hundred thousand in taxes well What people need to understand is we have different types of income. We have active income, we have passive income, we've got capital gains income, so on and so forth. And they are all taxed differently. And so when it comes to deductions, if we want to utilize a deduction against active income, it has to be an active deduction. So when you say materially participate, you need to actively be involved in that to be able to materially participate too? deduct from active income right because most people want to offset the income that they generate from either w-2 or their business and so with some of these programs they'll have like and you've seen them it's like hey log into this cctv for two hours a night and log your time and claim you're doing security on your business. Or we've got this 100-hour training course that you need to go through, and nobody actually goes through it. And again, these are just places where the IRS is going to poke a hole. Or my favorite, here's a log book. Just write down how much time you're like- The good old Google spreadsheet. Yeah. Just like, oh man. Yeah. This isn't going to hold up. And so the deduction, most of them wind up in a category, I say they look really good on paper and they're never going to pass an audit. And I just don't have it in me to put clients that trust me and trust my team at risk. And so there just wasn't a whole lot on the market for us to utilize. And it really led us to a position where we had to create our own. Okay. And so you had this and I remember firsthand talking to you and I was like, Kaysen, do you have advanced tax strategies? And you were really honest at that point. You're like, hey, we're vetting some things. But at this point, you didn't really have much for me. which which i was grateful for your help but i can i can feel firsthand the frustration yeah because it's like i want to pay less in taxes but i also don't want to get in trouble so fast forward talk to me about how you got connected with box house and talk to me about some big picture of like when you're when you're almost like caleb i believe that this is one of the the best advanced tax strategies on the market i know you don't say that lightly um i know someone watching or listening to this might be like push back on that and that's why we're doing this episode and again that's they can reach out to you directly and your team but like explain to me how you discovered this yeah and like the reason why you decided to go all in on this well a big part of that is um personal story and personal mission which we can get into yeah let's get into it but box house again they build the world's best redeployable homes and originally they started building these homes um More so to create like a retail market and use them as ADUs. And the way that they funded that was they set up workforce housing in West Texas, right outside the oil fields, which we still have 600 homes in West Texas today that were bought over the last two years. They were bought by investors that came into the deal looking for a tax benefit. And what's unique is every single one of those homes has generated positive cash flow every single month since it was put in service. So they're generating on average about $900 a month in positive cash flow. And that's above and beyond like debt service and cleaning fees and everything else. But anyhow, so Box House had come to me the first two years and said, hey, we want you to offer this to your clients. And in full transparency, there was just a couple pieces of the strategy that my partner really felt like was just a little bit weak. Okay. Now fast forward a couple of years later and Box House comes back to me again. He's like, Hey, I'm, I'm changing from workforce housing to disaster relief. At that time, I had no clue that there was even this problem of disaster induced homelessness. Like I had no idea. And so again, I told him no. And I went home that night and I started researching disaster. induced homelessness. And what he told me when we met is that when in the Maui fires, Hurricane Helene and Palisades happened, all three of those times, the federal government reached out to Box House and said, hey, we will buy as many of these homes from you as we possibly can. But because their business model wasn't set up for that, they were in a position where there just wasn't enough homes in inventory to really make a dent. And so the government was left in a position where, like with Hawaii. The stats on this blow my mind. And again, I had no idea this was an issue. Over 2,200 homes or 2,200 structures, most of them being homes, were destroyed over two years ago. All of those families are now left homeless to no fault of their own. And in two years, they've rebuilt 45 of those homes and that's it. And so in Hawaii, what they're doing right now is they're gobbling up. every Airbnb and hotel on the market. Okay. And, and, and because the, there's so much demand and supply is so low, the government right now is paying $1,200 a night for hotel rooms in Maui. $1,200 a night. 1,200 a night. And it's destroyed their economy because so much of the island relies on tourism. Right. And it's just shut it down. So if anybody listening to this has been to Maui in the last six months, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Okay. There's these tiny homes that are starting to pop up over the island, and they're an inferior product to ours. The government's buying them outright. spending $800,000 on them. But they're like, we can't rebuild homes fast enough and we have to get people outside of hotels so we can bring tourism back. And so they're buying these tiny homes, spending an exorbitant amount of money on them. And when we talked to the government, they're like, we don't know what to do with them when we're done. We don't want them forever. So then came this idea of, well, what if instead of selling them to the government, we leased them to the government? What if we became the only company that had this reserve of homes, 5,000 homes strategically placed across the United States that could be deployed in a moment's notice, creating shelter and safety, and instead of selling them to the government and letting them stockpile them, getting rid of them when they're done, we'll just take them back and go lease them to the next person. And so when you had the epiphany or the aha moment, what was the next step after that? Well, again, when Box House talked to me. And it took me a few days to do the research on this. And when I realized the real problem was homelessness, it became personal to me. And so at that point, I knew I had to get involved. I went to my partner, that super conservative CPA, and showed it to him. I was just like, hey, this is what I want to do. I thought he was going to tell me no. And he's like, well, you know what? Let's meet with our tax attorney, sit down and see if we can figure this thing out. sat in a conference room with tax attorneys and CPAs all day long, and we built out a strategy that's shored up and safe. Okay. So as simply as possible, and I know we're going to have a presentation that helps flesh some of this out, but before we get into that, explain to me, like I'm a fifth grader, how the strategy works. Because I know that you have material participation, and I also know that you're doing something very unique about having these units actively be in use. and you're using a trust structure, all together, you're doing something that's really unique and interesting. And I think it's important, in your own words, try to explain it to me like I'm a fifth grader. Okay, so you're an entrepreneur. And so you're very used to taking deductions like this already. Essentially, bonus depreciation is back to 100%. So if you were to go purchase a vehicle today for your business, Maybe you put $10,000 down and maybe that vehicle costs $50,000. Well, when you get to tax time, you're not deducting $10,000, you're deducting the whole $50,000, which is exactly how this works. And so essentially you invest into a unit through a structure that automatically gives you material participation. And because of the use case of this unit, it... A unit to be in service means it has to be ready and available for its intended use. So for these units, essentially, if they're in a ready pod holding facility, they're ready and available for their intended use. So again, invest in one of these units. We then take that unit. We lease it back to large construction companies, government organizations. You get a full tax benefit. And then these companies pay back the debt on that. And then all the additional cash flow goes to you. Okay, so big picture. Big picture, you've figured out a way for there to be material use. Correct. You've figured out a way for it to be in service because if it's, and you talked about ReadyPod, you might want to explain what that means, but it's my understanding that it doesn't necessarily need to be in Hawaii. Correct. It just needs to be ready to be deployed to a public disaster. Correct. And then you can check that it's in service. And these things, instead of the government buying them outright, they're going to lease them. And instead of them paying, in your example, $1,200 a night, you're actually helping the U.S. government massively. You're giving the people a way better product because instead of having a hotel room or having to drive 90 minutes away from home, you can get a position closer to their home, actually have a unit that has a kitchen, has a bathroom. And so you're giving them a better product for a lot cheaper. But when you say a lot cheaper, it still can be an amazing. cash flow opportunity as well so you're amazing i mean if anyone has seen the the movie war dogs you might be doing a version of that you're not being you're not you're not supplying military uh deal but anytime you're doing dealing with the government um it's it's amazing the the waste that goes on and so if you can actually create a better product for cheaper everybody wins but you can still make good money doing that and you're saying that this box house opportunity gives people the the ability, they're high income earners, to be able to get these box houses do good but get a tax benefit at the same time and that tax benefit when we were talking when what was interesting to me because anytime i'm looking at things and don't take this in any offense but i assume that whatever opportunity i'm putting my money in is going to go to zero yeah like i just i don't cash flow projections i've just i've been around the block enough to know that like i don't want to bank on that what was interesting about this is from the tax benefit alone of what you shared with me. It would be more than a wash. It would be a benefit for me, even if everything that... I'm seeing that I believe doesn't happen. I tell everybody that there's two scenarios here. And I think it's like that with everything in life. You have a best case scenario and you have a worst case scenario. And then in between. And then there's in between, right? So I think it's important we touch on what is your best case scenario if you buy one of these units? Your best case scenario is you purchase one of these units, you get a massive tax benefit this year, you help out people in need and you generate great cash flow. positive cash flow for years to come. Absolute best case scenario. Your absolute worst case scenario is you purchase one of these units and you get a great tax benefit this year. Your tax bill is significantly lower or you put significantly less into this than you would have paid in taxes. And so when you look at the best and the worst and then everything in between, wherever the ball lands, you won. Okay. I want to talk about worst case scenario. And I believe in the presentation, you'll talk about some of the downside components that you're thinking through, because one of the things that's important to you is there are strategies out there that require people to have to pay ongoing. Correct. And that's something with your background that you're like, from day one, I'd never want to go ask a client for more money because it just gives me a sick feeling even thinking about that. Well, this is supposed to be a real business and it is a real business. And how does that look if, if I'm going to come. Back to the person that started it and asked for money, like we've got real economic substance here. But my pushback and one thing I would like to address through the presentation, I don't think we need to do it now, but when you talk about worst case scenario, you're still assuming that you're getting the tax benefit. I would say the worst case scenario is the unit doesn't perform and the tax benefit doesn't hold up. And I know that you've been doing, you have people, attorneys, you have legal opinion letters, you have certain things. So I think it's, It's important for anyone that does something to know the pros and cons. But that would be, if I'm being honest, the worst case scenario would be that you don't even get the tax benefit. And so I want to make sure that that's addressed with our time together. Is there anything else that you want to talk about before we get into the presentation? No, I think we're good. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. That was an awesome intro. So now let's talk just and some of this might be a little bit of the same, but I think it's important as people are listening to this and watching this. And if you're listening to this, we're showing some things on the screen, so you might want to hop over to YouTube. And again, if this is something that's interesting to you, either for your clients or for you personally, I will put the links down below for them to reach out to your team and learn more. So with that, I'll hand it over to you, Cason. Okay, so I think let's touch on the units and the opportunities that we have available and really how it works. and then I want to show, I would say the proof's in the pudding, so I want to show how it... it impacts an actual tax return with real clients that have utilized this strategy. So there's really three models available. And I want everybody to understand when you purchase one of these units, you're purchasing the whole unit. It's yours. Okay. And so the first unit is the mini box, and that is a $70,000 down payment cash outlay. And the total deduction on that's 350,000. The second unit is the bungalow. And that is a $100,000 down payment or $100,000 cash outlay and a $500,000 total purchase price or deduction. And, Cason, who's giving the loan for the difference? So it is a loan from the manufacturer, from Box House. From Box House. Okay. And the loan is, well, we'll get into where the loan is too. Okay. Yeah. We've done it in a unique way where we're sure enough so that people are protected. Okay. So the loan is coming from the actual manufacturer. Correct. Okay. Yep. Now the third unit is the one that we're seeing the most demand on. We just put in a bid to the state of Florida. They want 500 units and they're like, hey, we want all 500 to be duplexes. And then there's a large construction company doing a data center in Delta, Utah. They want 2,500 units next year for employees. And they're like, we want the most duplexes, but we'll take whatever we can get our hands on. So the highest demand unit is the duplex. and that one's $130,000 down payment. and it's a 650 000 total purchase price giving it a 650 000 deduction okay now again a lot of people might be watching this still thinking like okay what does this do to a tax return because we tell everybody there is you know history shows that our history that there's a great investment here right but nothing's guaranteed in anything that you invest in the one thing that we are sure of is the tax benefit so make the decision based off of the tax benefit And so I've got three real case studies. These are real clients that are utilizing this strategy. Now, you've probably heard more than one CPA say this. I've heard. it a thousand times and it's not true and that is well if you're high income w-2 there's nothing we can do about it there's just nothing we can do about w-2 that's actually not true so the the first case study they want to show is it's a tech employee out of colorado w-2 tech employee files taxes married in joint and his income is 375 000 okay total tax liability off of that would be just over a hundred and one thousand That means the tax bill he would owe. Is $101,000. Okay. Now, what he purchased was one mini box. That gave him $350,000 worth of deduction. His cost out of pocket was $70,000. And his total tax savings is $101,000. Meaning his total net cash in pocket is just over $31,000. Okay. Now, we've got another one that I want to show here. It's a physician. This is all 1099 income. Okay. Physician out of Illinois, total income is $1.83 million. Tax liability, based off of state and federal taxes on that, is just under $735,000. That's more than most people make. It's crazy when you think that people are writing this check every year. And really, when you think about, I'm a firm believer that if we get the money back in the hands of the people that made it, it's going to have a huge positive impact on society. At your firm, what was the most amount of money you saved someone in one year? We have saved well over seven figures. It's hard for me to comprehend. Like someone comes to you, they're thinking they're going to pay X. Our biggest one is happening right now. Okay. And it's an NFL player. Saving that person a little money. There's a second one that's a doctor that's happening right now, $15 million in income. They're offsetting it. all of it with the strategy. But on this physician, so he purchased two duplexes in a bungalow. Total amount of depreciation was 1.8. Cash out of pocket is $360,000. So tax savings on that is $730,353. Net cash in pocket is $370,353. And just to be clear, we're not talking about potential cash flow on the back end. We're not talking about you actually have a... personal property asset we're just talking about the projected tax savings correct we call those home runs buddy it goes back to my worst case scenario is that this gets challenged and is not is not true and i know that you guys have been doing a lot of work to articulate and improve that like giving people confidence that it is but i just want to like because if someone's in a high if someone's in a top tax bracket and this is legit and they're not doing something like this they're literally hate money yeah the way that i look at this yeah so let's go let's continue but that was a very powerful example okay well let's uh let's jump through here um unless you want to go through this third case yeah let's go through the third case study why not so third case study this is one of my favorite couples that i've ever worked with um and they're fine with me talking about them they're home builders out of Montana and Bob's the kind of guy that he'll always tell you he's broke. He just bought his first brand new truck last year because he could never afford one. I love these people. Contractors, home builders out of Montana, total income's $2.6 million. They're usually sitting in between $2.6 and $3.5 on a year. Tax liability on that's just under $1.1 million. They purchased four duplexes, giving them 2.6 million in depreciation. cash out of pocket on that's 520 000 um total tax savings just under 1.1 million and uh net cash in pockets just under 580 000. how many trucks can you buy with a 580 000 of it really was after seeing this that he bought his first brand new truck and without this strategy they would be they'd be paying over a million dollars in taxes taxes that's uh That's one of the really fun things to be able to show someone real time doing real tax strategy on the big difference it can make. I'm a fan of doing proper tax strategy first and foremost because there's risk in anything that you do, but a lot of people are taking risk and trying to earn 10%, 12%, 15% on their money, and that's great. I mean, it's compounding all that good stuff, but it's like sometimes you can get a far greater return by instead of looking at where can I grow my money. We're just looking back and saying, what do I need to switch and change? And then if you are able to do both, it's even that much more powerful. Absolutely. Okay, let's move on. But yeah, thank you for walking through this. Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about how the structure works, which I think is extremely important. And I want to touch on some of the key pieces or the things that are innovative to our strategy that make an impact. And I know the first thing that probably jumps out to you is the trust structure. Correct. When you look at this. When you said the trust, a little bit of red flag, because it's been like on YouTube, on TikTok, there's people that... talk about all kinds of crazy stuff using trust and not paying your taxes and they own nothing, control everything. And we, and by the way, none of those work. It's a code for tax fraud, right? It's code for tax evasion. And so that's when, when you, when you said that, that was a, that was something that, you know, red flag. And then the other red flag, what I'm just being as honest with you as possible. The other red flag was like, okay, they're still taking on this debt. So it's like how, yeah. In a case in a perfect world, there's all this, but like, if they're stuck with the property and it doesn't cash flow or like yeah you got all that tax benefit but i got friends that have airbnbs that they're trying to get out of because they got the benefit but now it's like a net negative so those were two things like i have no problem with the depreciation like that's that's not people do that every year and the big beautiful bill makes this thing possible i have no problem even with the supply and demand i see it but Those were the two things for me that I was just like, I probably asked you a ton of questions. And the people that helped me vet this strategy, they asked a lot of questions as it relates to this. And the answers that we got back, it was like, oh, you actually thought through this. And you put something together. And you had an attorney actually write a letter. So you walk through all of that because not all attorneys are created equal. Not all legal opinions are created equal. So I want to walk through this. And I appreciate you and the due diligence that you've done and the due diligence that your team has done. I tell everybody, you're getting to an advanced strategy. You should know exactly what it is that you're buying. Correct. And the number one piece of feedback that we get, because we're talking to hundreds of people a week, and they'll bring their CPAs in and tax attorneys in. And I've had numerous CPAs and tax attorneys email our team. after they got on the call to vet the strategy for their client and say, Hey, we want some of these for ourselves. Um, and so we, we feel really, really good about this. Um, but I want to talk about the trust structure first and kind of get that piece out of the way. And then I'll talk about kind of the flow of money and how everything works. So the trust structure does two things. Okay. Number one, it protects the client in a worst case scenario situation, like we've talked about. Okay. Um, and then the second thing that it does is material participation. In a lot of these strategies that are on the market, whether they be the equipment leasing programs or the solar programs, I feel like the first place that the government's going to poke around is in material participation. And again, they've got these wild training courses and all that stuff that we talked about. Now, what our attorneys have found, and it's a lot of attorneys. We used a firm that's over 200 attorneys strong, and quite a few of them collaborated together on this. but what our attorneys found is that there's numerous court cases that have created legal precedents to back what we're saying, meaning the government has challenged this and lost every time. And so now it's just legal precedents that this is how it is. So what we found is that a trust in a transaction like this can be the material participant itself based off of the efforts of the trustees. So we've got the beneficiary, which is the client, the buyer, and then we've got two trustees. The trustees do this full-time. They have significant material participation in bringing every single unit to market. And so because of their participation, the beneficiary gets the benefit of their participation like that. Okay. And so if you were going to purchase one of these units, I'm going to talk about the bungalow because it's the easiest one to talk about. It's the 100,000, 500,000 unit, right? So if you were to purchase one of these units you're going to fund a trust with a hundred thousand dollars that trust is then going to purchase 99 of a series llc and that series llc is going to purchase the box house and the way that it does it is it uses your 100 000 as a down payment 20 down payment against the box house and then box house the manufacturer loans the remaining 400 000 so we've got the series that is the borrower of the money And the trust is the guarantor. Based off of law, trust can also be a guarantor on debt, and that benefit passes through to you as well. the buyer. So it creates this layer of protection. We've got what we call the risk wall and it creates this layer of protection between yourself where you get all the benefits, but you're protected from everything on the other side of that wall, if that makes sense. Okay. So the trust is putting the down payment into the series LLC and then Box House is coming up with the loan. And then the trust is on the hook to pay Box House back. Correct. So do you want to talk now about how Box House's loan works and how you've got, how you've set that up? Yeah. So the first thing that we'll touch on is, is kind of the terms of it. Okay. So, you know, these units are in, are considered in use the day we sell them. It's an already pod holding facility, but not every one of them has a lease on them today. And so we kind of needed time to get those negotiations done. So for everybody that purchases this year, they'll get the tax benefit this year. But the first payment on that note is not due until January 15th of 2027. So two Januaries away. And again, we will never go back to the buyer and ask them for another dollar. So that's the first thing. The second thing is it's a nine year interest only loan. Nine years of interest only. And you're confident the IRS would look at that and say that's... I mean, there's other loans out there that... It meets every requirement. It's not a 60-year interest. Zero interest, right. Okay. But nine years interest only. Correct. So another way of saying this is Box House is making this as attractive as possible to not make this a burden from a cash flow perspective. Correct. And then after the nine years, it's a balloon payment? Okay. So nine years, interest only, and do you have do you know the interest rate or is it based on is it floating it's whatever the afr rate is for the midterm the month that the unit's purchased so this month it's 3.84 okay so very conservative interest and you're not requiring the first interest payment to be done um june or january 2027 would be when the first payment would be would be due right and so the units are either cash flowing when and then it's not an issue. If they are cash flowing, I would imagine that the trustee would make the payment and then would pass on the net profits to the beneficiary. Yeah. Let's talk about that for a second. I think it's important to understand that there's three companies that are involved in this. Okay. Okay. So company one is Box House. Box House is the manufacturer of these homes. Okay. And Box House is both the manufacturer and the lender, but they don't sell houses. Okay. So there's Highland Steel, which is my company. And we really designed and administer the tax program. And we have exclusive rights as the dealer of these homes. And then the third company is a company called ReadyPod. And ReadyPod, think of ReadyPod as the property manager. We have a unique agreement with ReadyPod. We wanted to make sure they were motivated to perform, but not motivated to underperform, if that makes sense. And so with ReadyPod, Your unit's actually costing them money if they don't have a lease on it. And the reason for that is when it's not being utilized, they're responsible for all storage fees and insuring the unit. We don't want you coming out of pocket on any of that. So they only make money based off of a 20% management fee off of the leases that they negotiate. Okay. So money comes in, ReadyPod collects that money. They take their 20% off of the top. The remaining 80% goes to the series? the series services its debt and then quarterly it spits out the remaining distribution out to the owner of the unit now let's say for example purposes we're in a position where the unit's done great for two years and it's in between leases maybe and maybe it takes a three-month break which when we look at the demand i don't think that happens but it could right so we have to look at that if there's not money in the series to cover its debt payment then that payment will just recapitalized. on the back end of the note. So if the unit owes a debt payment, and let's say that debt payment is $1,000, and there's no cash inside of the series because it's already been spit out as a distribution, then that $1,000 will just get tacked on to the back end of that loan. Okay. Another way to say that is at all costs, you're not going to want to go back to the beneficiary Of the of the trust and ask for more money. Correct. Okay So you have box house which is the manufacturer you have highland steel Which is the you essentially able to you're the you have the rights to sell this and then you have ready pod property manager and the ones that actually will deploy in natural disasters and actually they're the ones that are getting the box houses from point a to point b correct okay uh that's that's that's helpful um when it goes back to this so let's talk about the best and worst case scenarios when it comes to something like this best case scenario is this thing leases like crazy you pay off your loan after nine Plus here, what happens in the best case scenario if the trust is giving distributions back to the beneficiary? Where's the money going to come to actually pay the balloon payment off? So there's a few different scenarios that could happen. You know, if it's still generating cash flow and performing well, which I believe it will be, then in nine years, renegotiate another nine-year interest-only term with Box House and just kick it out even further. Other likely scenarios, and we just did this with buyers from the first year, okay? There's a huge need for affordable housing communities. And just like the communities that are getting these large construction projects, yes, they need workforce housing, but they also need long-term housing. And so a likely scenario could be that, you know, this thing leases out for the next five to six years in the ReadyPod model. And then we take it out of that ReadyPod model with, let's say, another 100 units. And then we go into a community that's had a large influx in people moving in, or we go buy an RV park outside of an oil field in West Texas, and we put 100 of these units on that property. We get it to 100% occupancy, and then we sell that as a portfolio. And then the distributions would go back to the investor of the unit. Now, that would create a tax consequence, okay? But on the last one, it profited over $10 million. And so our promise... Okay. People were happy because they're like, oh, I've got this tax bill I'm going to have to pay now, but I've got twice as much money coming to me than what the tax bill is. Yeah, let's take that deal. I hear you. Our promise is that we will never dispose or get rid of this unit in a way that's going to create a negative tax consequence or phantom income to the buyer. Okay. You've been really clear from day one that that's your you've been really clear, especially with someone like me, on that not being an issue. For sure. There's other likely scenarios, like maybe somebody wants to get out in three years. They're like, hey, we've owned this unit, it's cash flowed well, and we bought next year or two, or whatever the case may be, right? But we showed up for the tax benefit and we got it, okay? There's situations we've got, like for example, a very large qualified 501c3 that does housing for veterans. And they're like, hey, if somebody wants out of their unit, we'll take the donation and we'll re-secure the debt. Because then it goes from a taxed environment to a tax-free environment. And there's levers that they can pull on in that tax-free environment that don't impact the 501 because it's in a tax-free environment. And so that would get a buyer out of a unit without any recapture, any cancellation of debt income. They're just out. They got their tax benefit. They're gone. A couple of other scenarios that we could dive into as well. If somebody is listening to this, they're like, hey, this might be a great fit for me. just reach out to my team and they can kind of go through everything with you. Yeah, I think it's important to understand all these aspects because, yeah, I want to believe perfect scenario, but I also want to be prepared for the worst case scenario. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. That's right. If you're an accredited investor and want to find a place where you can look at all the advanced tax strategies that I know or if I've been pitched or I've heard, I've created a place for you. It's called taxandassets.com. It's a free community for accredited investors that want to go deeper on potential tax strategies for you to do research on, for your tax team to do research on. You can go to taxandassets.com or check out the link in the description. All right, Kacen, I got some hard questions for you. Let's go, buddy. Okay. So the people that have seen this, there's been attorneys, there's been CPAs, there's been very smart people. I know a lot of them like this, but I'm sure you've gotten pushback, you've gotten questions. people are running this through chat gbt it's coming up with a lot of questions what are some of the best and toughest questions that you guys have had to address just as people have heard something like this and i think it's just important for you to address some of the the pros and cons of just doing anything new yeah and i would love to give you the space to be able to riff on that yeah those are great questions and definitely things that that we want to address um i'll tell you there's there's nothing you're going to put through chat gtp that i don't have an answer for at this point. We have thousands of people that are doing this this year. Can you tell when someone runs something through ChatGPT? Every single time. It's so similar what we get back. I'm like, hey, somebody, I just tell my partner, CP, I'm like, hey, somebody else ran this through ChatGPT. I need you to write up a response for this, but the number one thing that people come back with is this seems too good to be true. And people have been taught to not trust too good to be true. And then they follow that up with, there's no way that I have no risk. And the answer to that is, you are 100% right. You absolutely have risk in this deal. You have to have risk in order to take the deduction. Now, having said that, this is very well designed and very well thought through. And so we've put things in place. There's levers that we can pull on throughout the life of the transaction that do protect you. But you absolutely have risk. You have to be at risk in order to take the deduction. Okay. So it's not too good to be true. Now, the second thing that we get is what happens if I get audited? And if somebody were to get audited, we have a... a very large law firm, Fabian VanCott. I tell everybody, when you see the legal opinion letters, like look up the firm that did it because I always laugh when I'm vetting out strategies and I, and I, the person tells me they have a legal opinion. I look it up. It's like a, a one man show with a PO box. And I call the number. It's a Google voice number. Like we've got a firm that's a couple hundred of attorneys strong, and they are the ones that will defend this strategy. And that is 100% paid for by Box House. So if someone, if you were to do this, you were to get audited. You get a letter first. You're going to send that letter to us, and we are going to take it from there, and then we'll cover all of the legal fees. The second thing that I tell everybody, no deduction is guaranteed, ever. You could use your vehicle 100% for business, log all of it, and get an audit. It's like, yeah, you know what? I don't believe you, so I'm just allowing the deduction. Now, chances are very low that something like this gets audited, like very, very low. And having said that. if it was challenged and there was some sort of change, we will refund all cash that's been put into the deal. And you have that in writing? And we put that in writing. Wow. Okay. Okay. So in other words, you have your attorney who's not just a solo person who's running a big firm. What was the firm again? Fabian VanCop. Okay. And you can, people can look them up. Yeah. They're, they're, they're really big in Utah and Nevada. Okay. So they can look them up and they have an opinion letter which I'm sure people can read if they reach out to your team. Yeah. And all and so and then if someone's being audited because I think that's the biggest risk and or fear people have is they get audited and then they're trying to explain to an IRS. IRS is not knocking on your door asking you 20 questions. Right. You know so the idea would be you would get a letter send it to you and then you would have the actual tax attorneys representing. Correct. And you're saying that you guys are so confident in this that if this even loses an audit, you guys would refund all the money that's put in. Correct. And you can legally do that without getting you guys in trouble? Correct. Okay. What other questions have been coming up that are just easy to answer that people get tripped up? Like, is the material participation one or, like, in service? That's something I'm like, hey, I've always been told that the unit needs to be, like, rented out so many times to even. be able to qualify and people are doing this end of December. How does that work? Right. And that is the number one thing that people bring up. We have a lot of people that are buying these that are used to purchasing real estate. And I mean, we know kind of how real estate investing has looked the last couple of years. And so this is looking really attractive to them and they're loving it. But that's the number one thing they bring up. Like, how is this considered in service? And so again, what in service means by the IRS's standpoint is that is that whatever it is, is ready and available for its intended use. And these, their intended use is to be rapidly deployed when they're needed and then leased back to these large construction companies and government agencies. And so for these, as long as the unit is inside of a shipping container, sitting inside of a ReadyPod holding facility, it's in use because it's ready for what it's intended to do. And every single unit that we sell is... already sitting in a ready pod holding facility, meaning day one, when it's purchased, it's in use. So someone could technically get this the last week of December and they can check the in-service, whereas it would be impossible for them the last week of the year to buy real estate and check all the boxes. I mean, I shouldn't say impossible because some people can figure it out, but it would be very unlikely, very stressful trying to do it without some... a structure like this yeah for example we still have a few hundred spots down in west texas where the units from the last couple years are at performing very well that we could send units down to if we wanted to but in order for those units to be in service they have to be hooked up to water sewage power and on a platform that they can be rented out and so um it would be nearly impossible for us to get units in service in inside of that model before the end of the year What other things have I not asked you that are important to mention before we get into your story? Is there anything that we passed over? Is there anything that you're having conversations with a lot of people? Is there anything that you're like, I want to mention it here before we get into my story? Yeah, I would say the number one piece of feedback that we get here, we always suggest people rely on their trusted professionals, so their CPA and their attorney. So we spend a lot of time on calls with CPAs and attorneys that are vetting this out for their clients. And it's always funny because we'll be on Zoom calls with them and you can tell the point where they get it. Because they show up on the call thinking that they're just going to tear us to shreds. And at some point in that call, you usually see them get kind of a grin. And they're like, well, okay, my concern, you guys figured it out. Well done. So what I would say is we want everybody. that's involved in this to feel very comfortable with what they're doing. And so we ask that you do your due diligence with both your trusted professionals, and then we have all of the materials to provide to them. We're happy to jump on those calls and take those calls. But if you are somebody that's considering doing this yourself, if you think you'd be a good fit and want more information, please reach out to my team. And then if you are a tax advisor or a tax attorney or a CPA or an advisor, just imagine any wealth advisor. And you've got clients that this would be a great benefit to please get in touch with us. We'd love to help. Okay. We'll put the information down below and so we'll make it easy for people to reach out to your team. Awesome. Okay. So you told me that it was personal. Unpack why solving homelessness is personal to you. So 10 years ago, I was homeless and like totally homeless. You've seen pictures of it. In that moment 10 years ago, all I wanted was a family. I wanted to be able to provide a roof over their head. And so I actually remember the last 24 hours of homelessness for me. I think about it daily, and I remember it like it was yesterday. And what happened is I lived in Pioneer Park in downtown Salt Lake City. Like I was totally homeless, carried a backpack. At one point I pushed a cart with what I owned in it. And I went to sleep in the park. And it was coming into winter time, and so it was wet outside, Salt Lake City, it's really cold. And I wake up in the morning, and I remember my first thought was, my feet are really cold. And I looked down, and somebody had stolen my shoes off of my feet while I was asleep. And so, a lot of people don't know this, but a huge problem that homeless people have is socks. like you need new socks you wear socks for a few days and your your feet get swore on them and so luckily there's there's a lot of a lot of charities that will bring socks to the homeless and there was this van that used to show up a couple times a week we called it the sock van and it just so happens that on this day i look over and the sock fans here and so i walked over to the sock then i was like hey guys somebody stole my shoes off of my feet you guys you guys have any shoes by chance they're like we don't have shoes but we can give the extra socks So they gave me about five pairs of socks and I walked across the street to the Chevron and I walked in the Chevron and I mean these people I'm sure hated it when when homeless would walk in but I walked in they gave me this look and I'm like hey is there any chance you guys have shoes they're like no we don't have any shoes I was like well can I have some grocery bags they gave me a stack of grocery bags and I walked outside and you know in between the gas pumps they've got like the window washing stations and so I walked over to one and I grabbed a stack of paper towels. I went back and sat on the curb, and I wiped my feet dry, and I put on one pair of socks at a time. And then I grabbed those grocery bags, and I started to tie them on my feet, one at a time, one over another. And Salt Lake. is it's a valley. It's like in between two mountains. And so the city runs north and south. It's long. And the public transit system is called the track system. And it runs north and south through the valley. And I knew that if I went about 48 blocks to the south and 16 blocks to the east, that there was a Walmart and a Kmart that were just right across the street from each other. So I walk over to the track station and I get on that train and I take it 48 blocks to the south. And I get off and I start walking to the east and I get about six blocks in. And by this time, I'd worn through all of the bags on my feet and my socks were wet again. I'd started to wear through some of the socks. And I sat down and I was like, I was like completely defeated in this moment. And I called my mom and I said, Mom, somebody stole my shoes off of my feet last night. Can you send me money for shoes? And she said, I can't help you. And I now know in that moment what she meant was, I don't think me buying you shoes is the help that you need. And that wound up being all of the help that I needed was her telling me no. So I sat on that curb for a minute and I got up and I walked. I walked the remaining, you know, 13 blocks. And I get to where I can see the Walmart and the Kmart on both sides of me. And I decided I was going to the Kmart. And thank heavens I did. Because three things were about to happen that would change my life forever. The first thing that happened is I'm walking through the parking lot. There's this couple, maybe 25 years old, and they've got, each of them has a coffee in one hand or hot chocolate, whatever it was. They've got their arms around each other and they're looking at each other and they're laughing, having a great time, feeling a sense of joy and love that I hadn't felt in my life. And in that moment, everything that I wanted was to have what they had with somebody else. But I'm, I'm in a position in life where I've got nothing to offer. So I keep on walking and I get to, I get to, you know, like where you get right across from the parking lot where you go through the double doors. I mean, I've got to be standing out like a sore thumb, right? I've got socks and bags on my feet. This family starts walking out and it was a mother, a father, and three kids. And you could tell they'd been Christmas shopping because, you know, the kids are like, I want to get a Razor scooter. I want a new Xbox. And the mom and the dad are like, guys, we got to hurry home. We got to get these letters to Santa before Christmas. And they were just like, dude, this family was just full of love and joy. And I wanted to give that to a family so bad. It was something I didn't have growing up. And so. I walk in the store and I go back to the shoe section and look up at the wall where the shoes are at and they've got these Kmart version Chuck Taylors like Converse Kmart Chuck Taylors and it just so happened that the shoes that were stolen off of my feet were real Chuck Taylors so I thought this is nice somebody stole my Chuck Taylors I'm gonna steal Kmart's Chuck Taylors and I grab them I walk over to the socks I grab a fresh pair of socks I kind of like hide over, you know, in the shoe section, make sure nobody's looking. I put the socks on, I put the shoes on, and I start walking out. And I get past that first double door, and I'm thinking, I'm almost home free. And I take about two more steps, and a cop comes around the corner. And he walks right up to me. And I was like, hey, I haven't done anything wrong. I haven't left the store yet. And he said, case and turn around. He knew who I was. And I happened to be on probation, which meant I had no rights at that time, right? So the cop searched me and arrested me. And sitting in the back of that cop car, I was so far away from the life that I truly wanted and had no idea how to get there. I was hopeless and broken. And all I could think through, and it gave me this sense of peace for the situation I was in, and a sense of excitement and joy. All I could think about over and over and over was that young couple that was in love and that happy family that was about to celebrate Christmas. And all that I wanted was that. And I remember, I remember making a promise to my maker in that moment. I don't know how to get out of this life that I'm in. And I'm far from where I want to be. And I need help. And if you can help me get to the point that I can provide a roof over somebody's head and be a great provider and protector and love somebody, if you can help me get a home, I'll help as many people get houses as I possibly can. Now fast forward, I've bought multiple homes since then. Got a beautiful home. I've got a wife and five kids. And so, as a part of my mission, I had a little bit of success in a sales position. And for the first time in my life, I had this massive tax problem. I had no clue how much taxes were. And I get out, get in my life to... I make a good income. I get hit with this tax bill. And I'm like, that's it. I need to help people by helping them save money on taxes. Because if I can save them money on taxes, they can invest in real estate. They could buy homes for themselves. They can invest in better memories with their family. So I started the accounting firm and we helped out a lot of people and I felt like I was fulfilling that mission. And so when this opportunity came to me, I said no. I told Box House no. And I went home that night and I started to research disaster-induced homelessness. And I'm reading stories about this young family that lost everything in the home that they had just bought their first home in North Carolina. And the first place they could get a roof over there was Texas. So they shipped them from North Carolina to Texas. And I thought, I've got a daughter in college right now. What if she had just met the love of her life? They bought their first home and that was them. Like these are real families. These are real people. I read another story about an elderly couple in North Carolina that had just made their last mortgage payment and their home was completely wiped out, devastated. And I thought through this, I bet you I spent a hundred hours that week looking into this stuff. And then I told my wife, I was like, babe, box house, which I told her about, you know, she knew, she knew what the company was and everything. I was like, they've got this new idea to provide housing to disaster victims that have lost their homes. And her first word was, you got to do it. She said, you got to do it. And I was like, like. I love the accounting firm. I've got a lot of employees that I love to death, and I think I'd have to go do this full time. And she said, look at all the blessings we've had over the last 10 years. You've got to go do it. So that's how it became personal to me, and that's how we got to where we're at. Jason, thank you. Thank you for sharing. You spoke at my event last year, and there were... There's very few dry eyes, as you've shared. I think you mentioned something in the talk that some people didn't know they grew up poor. You grew up and you knew that you were poor growing up and how that shaped. There could be lots of different questions I ask you about, even your opinion about solving the homelessness issue and all, but from the very beginning of meeting you and hearing your story and seeing how you live your life, it's very apparent that you put everything into what you're up to. Yeah. And I appreciate you sharing with our audience what you're up to, and then also sharing your why behind why you're so passionate about solving this issue. I don't know where to go from here. Is there, since starting, what has been the biggest challenge and biggest... excitement that you've felt since making that decision? Because you've, like a rocket ship, have been moving all in on this, and I'm sure there's been really exciting highs and probably some lows. What have those been? So I had a pretty short runway coming into this, and 5,000 homes is a lot. It's a lot of homes. And I... Uh... I had like a couple weeks to prepare and so it's been challenging. I tell people I'm just holding on with everything I have right now through December 31st and we're getting the work done and we're doing great. The market has received this even better than I expected and it's a rocket ship that's moving fast. It really is a good, safe strategy. And essentially we're benefiting the government. It doesn't get any better than that. We're utilizing the tax code for exactly what it's meant for. Challenges have been I don't have a lot of time to think and I haven't had a lot of time to put systems and processes in place. And so this year is going to be great. Next year is going to be even better. Yeah. Call to action for anyone watching or listening. Who are the people that should be reaching out to you? And we'll make sure your contact info is below. And again, I'm very interested to hear the comments and the feedback that you all have. again I'm bringing people on that can help us think differently. And so I have a lot of people that are talking about tax stuff, obviously people that are Follow me. I know I'm a big fan of insurance. We have lots of different people that talk about insurance things. We're going to be talking more about investing in the new year, just like alternative ways to invest. And the challenge that I have, Cason, is I am not co-signing everything that I'm talking about on the show. But it's important to me that we bring on people that are doing things differently because I believe what you're doing, regardless of someone works with you directly or not, by you sharing your story and what you're up to is going to help. everyone in the community think bigger and better. And the same thing when it comes to insurance and investing. And so what I'm trying to do is make a platform to be able to get people to share what's going on so that we can raise the tide and that everyone can benefit as a result. So that's my, that's my hope by bringing people on. What, how can people connect? And then what is like, who should be talking to you and your team right now? Yeah. I am a firm believer that That our country runs a lot better if we keep money in the hands of the people that earned it to begin with. Which is what we're doing here. Our clients that we work with, I love products like yours. I think people should be building a financial wall around their family and your product is an asset to that. And so as we save people money on taxes, I strongly encourage them to put them in financial products that make sense and add to their families. financial security. Okay. So the first people that, that should reach out to me, um, is, is if you are a financial professional, a tax advisor, a tax attorney, anything along those lines, and you have clients that this would be a great fit for, um, I would love to get in contact and make an impact in your community and, and, and help you and your clients out. And then if you're listening to this and you are a high income earner, whether it be W2, whether it be business generated income. and you haven't done your planning for this year and you're starting to get a little bit nervous because the end of year is, I mean, it's right there and you've got this tax bill on the other side of it, reach out to my team. We're happy to sit down. We've got CPAs and accountants on staff that can sit down with you and kind of go through your situation and put together projections for you. Knowledge is power. So even if you don't get involved in our strategy, it's good to have knowledge of what you're looking at come tax time and we're happy to to provide that to people. Kaysen, thank you so much for making the trip out and sharing with our audience. Thanks for having me.
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