Tough Questions About Infinite Banking Financing Cars & Paying Debt

 So now I'm going to ask you a couple of hard questions. You ready? Is there anything that you've changed your mind on since learning about becoming your own banker? Like this is like life changing moment, 2014, you're learning this, you're getting your policies and then you partner with Brent in 2018 and you're learning, I've changed my opinions on a ton of things. You know, and I have zero regrets. But there's things that I'm like, man, I was like, I would change my thoughts here and I changed my thoughts here and I changed my thoughts here. Any anything that you look back on, you're like, okay, no regrets because I know you well enough that you're not sitting around sulking. But is there anything that you're like, man, I wish I would have said things different or like, I have a better understanding now than I did in 2018. In the beginning, and I think this is because I come from Washington, I was in the beginning I was so hyper focused on the numbers, like, you know, the spread and like doing the actual math on everything. And I will say that, I'm not saying it was a mistake, but it was shortsighted because it's never about the numbers here. You know, and the numbers don't even matter and people won't understand that listening to this, but it's not about the numbers, it's about the process. And I really kind of wish I did earlier, but I really pivoted to really teaching a process that doesn't, it involves numbers and it involves all that stuff, but I don't need any numbers to teach what I do today. It's a very simple, repeatable process that every single person out there can do if they set their mind to it. But the other thing I did is I always wanted to help everybody. And now I know who my client is not so that I can figure out who my client is and I know who I can't help. And it's hard for me to still, even today, tell people know, but I tell a lot of people this isn't right for you. And I think that's helped me tremendously. But is it mindset or money? It's mindset, 100% yeah, mindset. What makes someone not a good person for this process? They want quick money. They think it in rich quick is the way to go and they're buying into all the newest, latest, greatest, you know, whether it's Bitcoin or whatever else, nothing against Bitcoin, but like, you know, the quick money, they just want to get rich fast. And this is not for them. The, it's interesting. I, thing I say a ton is like, this is not an investment. This is not an investment because I think if you compare it to an investment, it's just unfair across the board. There's unrealistic expectations. But if you compare it to a storage place, a protection vehicle, it's like, you actually understand the multi-dimensional aspect of life insurance. It's pretty incredible. And multiple jobs it gives you. It's like, if someone really leans into that, it's a game changer. If you, if, if life insurance didn't have any other benefit other than the rate of return and borrowing function on popular opinion, I don't think what we do is that valuable. So it's like, we can talk about arbitrage. And I personally don't believe that there, I think we talked on your show. It's like arbitrage. And so, but when you start adding the death benefit at chronic illness riders protection, tax benefit, now the tax benefit potentially makes there arbitrage as you factor in taxes. And you, and you start adding in all the benefits you're getting with life insurance and the original epiphany that you had, you're like, I get a dollar doing two things. And I think from an entrepreneur, I find that entrepreneurs or people that understand real estate really get this. They do. Because they're like, okay, you're telling me I get all the benefits of all this list for the rest of my life. And I get to be able to make moves over here. Like that, that for me is really, really special and powerful. When I first got into this though, I was hyper focused on the numbers as well. I said I cared about all these other benefits, but I didn't. And, and so it would be like, I would really have to like be just to find some things. But now understanding all the benefits of life insurance is like, man, I become less and a little too. Like numbers are important. Don't get me wrong. They're super important, especially if you're comparing one policy versus the other. Very, very important. But at the end of the day, it's like, no, like I value credit or protection. I value having a death benefit and sharing my life. I value having more options in the future. I value understanding how this could be a super bond in the future. You know, and it's like when you start, when you start, it will be a super bond in the future. Right. And so when you start, when you start adding up all those benefits, it's like, I don't know how like everyone needs this. Well, remember back to the mic story. Remember he didn't tell me what it was. Yeah. Until the end, but he told me what it did. Yeah. And it's going to I could think of nothing other than I need this. Yep. And then he told me what it was. And I'm like, I don't want that. Yeah. How many people I should go through that they want everything whole life does. But then when you tell them what it is, they don't want it anymore. That's sad. That's what I mean by understanding who my client is not. Yeah. And understand what my client is. And the other thing that's vitally important for most people to understand is I know, you know, it's easy for people to hyper focus on the whole life for the whole life, the whole life because of the products tangible. But just so everybody understands, you'll never get wealthy because of whole life. Whole life's going to never make you wealthy. It's good. But applying whole life to the process called the infinite banking concept pioneered by the late Arnold's Nash will make you wealthy beyond your wildest dreams. And you will know that the difference between a person that's rich and wealthy is a person that's wealthy learns how to not give the money back. Rich people make it and give it back. Make it and give back wealthy people never give it back. The infinite banking concept makes sure that you never have to give the money back because you control all the reasons you plug all the holes in your financial. Let's unpack that. Let's unpack that because I look at when I think of infinite banking and using life insurance, I look at it as a better place to save my money. Yes. I'm saving money and I could save it into a high yield savings account. And I could take that money out, do other things and pay myself back just like the process. To the bank account. Yeah. To the bank account. I'm earning right now 5% interest, you know, two years ago, less than 1%. So it's like, okay, that's the banking function. And from a financial standpoint, Chris, like you could argue that depending on the situation, you'll almost have just as much money as an infinite bank. You would. You would. And that's important. Right. Everybody's short-sighted. Yes. 5% on a bank account or high yield savings are like, why would I need it? Why would I ever do a whole life where I don't even, you know, I make less than I would in a bank account. People forget banks are only paying you high interest because we're in a high interest rate environment. Yeah. And it is cyclical and that will change. Totally. I've been next year will come off. Jerome Powell has already said, next year, it's the latest. We will start coming off of these highs. So your bank account is not fixed. Right. It will not stay at 5% to go to four. In two, it would eventually be nothing. Whole life, the one vehicle that everybody hates, but everybody needs to understand, never changes. Right. Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's built-in guarantees and whole life will get long-term, three, four, five times greater internal rate return than a savings account. So just to, but that process, like, okay, so it's a better place to save your money. It's a better place to save your money. And I agree with you, life at like infant and banking won't like, I actually believe that what will make you wealthy is your ability to create value and the activities that you do in investing. So my ability to create value, continue to be able to serve, build all these things, creating money. Life insurance, infant and banking is a place to keep it. Obviously tax strategies are also important. Keep your money. And then how I utilize that money is important. So you could say, whole life is a core component of that, but I would actually have, I attribute the true wealth to creating, multiplying life insurance as foundation. And the beautiful thing is when you look at like, we're in this beautiful building, we don't see the foundation. Foundation's not sexy, but if they didn't have a foundation, the building doesn't get to, to, you know, be like, it's not here. Well, interesting thing. So it's just like, I think I under like, I don't get as, because I just see, I see the infant and banking get over pitched. And I'm going to ask you another question about like, all these people on TikTok and all these like, and it's just like, part of me, part of me, Chris, really is like, I get frustrated by that because it's not that it cheapens, but it's like, I, I, you're not going to get wealthy putting life insurance and then buying sports cars. It's like, you're not going, the only way that works is by you creating more money, you could justify like, you've driving a sports car, you now show it more powerfully, you make more money. And yes, your money's compounding over here, but it's not like, it only makes sense if you're making more money in the activity and life insurance is just an efficiency foundation. It just helps you create more efficiency in the process. But if you're not creating and if you're not multiplying, it will, it's not going to change your life. Our company name is the money multi-multiple. Yeah, there you go. But you get what I'm saying. Like this is none of, yeah, infinite banking doesn't work without creation. You have to be able to create. So if, you know, when I talk to people about this and, you know, just eliminate the vehicle, okay, the whole life, because you're right. You can't see the foundation here. And a lot of people don't understand is the wealthiest families throughout history. I've done a video on history. I did more due diligence on that. When you start looking at all the bankers, Morgan's, the Stanleys and all of them, they all used whole life as a foundation for storing their wealth. But nobody knows that because it's a foundation. You don't see it. They don't talk about it. They don't be like, oh, hey, all my buddies in whole life. Yeah, nobody knows that. Yeah. And because nobody knows that they think they know what they don't know. And that's one of the biggest problems I think in the world, but also definitely in the US. And I love that because creation is the one thing that will differentiate the five versus the 95%. Yeah. It's been proven. Yeah. Five percent of the people that will retire will retire financially secure only five percent. Yeah. So what's the difference between the five and the 95? The 95% can form to somebody's failed idea. Somebody's failed reality. Somebody's failed plan. The 5% you, me, everybody we deal with what did we do different? Yeah. Not much. Yeah. We created. That's it. It's creation. Why do you, why do you recommend people use infinite banking and buy cars? Like why? Yeah. Because everybody's going to buy cars. And if we eliminate cars from the infinite banking, there's too many people that don't know how to invest money. They haven't learned how to invest. They just invest in things because their cab driver or their Uber driver tells them this is what you should invest in. They don't know like and understand what they invest in, which is more dangerous than anything else, but they're always going to buy cars. So with cars, let's just say car loans are 7% right now. That's 7%. Yeah. Most people can't even find mutual funds or an investment portfolio that will consistently pay you 7%. So for me, I do talk about cars a lot. And I do have lots of very nice cars that are all funded through my banking. Yeah. And a lot of people are like, why are you doing that and not this? Because that is the safest, safest place I can go for making a decent return. It would rival what I'd make in the S&P 500 over a long period of time. And I get to drive the car that I want. I love porches. I don't hide bad. I'm not a material guy. I don't wear fancy things, dress fancy. But I love my car. So is another way to say like by helping people buy cars with life insurance, you're just creating them a more, they're just saving more. You're just creating a fundamental foundation. Well, you're just getting them to literally save more. I'm really just getting them to understand the concept through something they're already having to do because they're going to have to do it. It's also why I talk about being off wealth with this so much. Like granted, like we can go out and invest money and we can buy real estate and private loans, which I do all that. But people can't articulate with that yet. When they're buried in debt, so let's show you how to build wealth through your own debts and expenses. Or let's just show you how to use that stupid car and take back a little bit of extra money every single month that you're giving away. Because if they can, if I can teach them how to do it with a car, I can teach them how to do it with private loans and investing and everything else. But I can't go with investing when they don't know like an understand it. They don't like an understand the cars. So I'm showing how to get all the money back. And I think it's really powerful if you look at high interest rate debt. That's like a guaranteed guarantee. And I invest not investment advice, but like if you have a credit card line and you pay that off, whether it's with cash or with infinite banking, like you're getting a guaranteed rate or a turn, because of it's the reverse opportunity cost. This is what you would have to pay. And so yeah, I mean, there's really a lot of things. Single biggest topic I talk about in all my videos is debt. And exactly what you just said, because it is the fastest way every single person can build wealth. And it's through their own debt. What are your thoughts on 30 year mortgages? And just like I've heard some people teach infinite banking and they're helping people pay off their mortgages with infinite banking because banks are evil. And that's a, that's a, I'm just curious. It's not a fun, it's not a fundamental reason to pay off. It's not just because banks are evil as a fundamental reason to pay off your mortgage. If you understand the velocity of money and you understand the velocity of interest and how banks make money on a mortgage, I mean, so many people are like, my mortgage is only 3% I'm like, no, it's not. Read the fine print. Your mortgage is probably like 60% in the first eight years. You're paying 60% interest in those years because it's a velocity. Your rate is only three, but you're giving away 60%. So I don't, I don't really, I'm not the guy with infinite banking and teachers paying off your mortgage. But do I tell people to pay off their mortgage? Absolutely. And you usually don't do it with infinite banking because house mortgages, the biggest debt most people have. So if we're going to devote infinite banking money to paying off a house, we have no economic value today next year or the year after. So most people will never complete the job because they won't make it to the end. And then all their money's tied up. And all their money's tied up. Well, and the goal is you have a paid off house then what? And then you buy another house. Well, well, it's like, you have great only way that you can, you can get that money out as you sell or refinance or like do a he- I teach people using he-locks. That's what I tell them to do with their house. And I don't tell people to take their he-lock, put it into a policy and do that. I just, I'm not that guy. Now, do I have people on my team that like doing that? Yeah. I'm just not that guy. I have a he-lock on my house and I lend direct from the he-lock. I don't take the he-lock into my whole life. I just don't. Yeah. Yeah, 30 year mortgages, I think, on popular opinion, I think they're amazing. I understand when you look at the first eight years, you look at all the money going to interest, but if you look at opportunity cost of like, yes, we can, we just look without the value of what we could grow money, you're totally right. It's like, let's, then the goal is let's pay less than interest. Well, you also have to balance the other side. And if you have a 3% mortgage, mathematically, you need to earn 3% or more. 3% or more. And so it's again, now that we're at 7%, 8%. This could be like, then you look at the market all time high and where interest rates are at. And then you make an argument that paying off debt at 8% could be better than putting money in the market. You could make the argument there. My whole point is, I'm a fan of mortgages for a lot of different reasons from just like cash flow, inflation. And I just... I'll never agree with you that 30 year mortgages are amazing. I just won't. Well, why can't I get you to do it? Well, no, but... Yeah. I'm just letting me finish that. Everything else you said is exact. I never will tell people, take your policy and pay off your mortgage. We teach it in the one video, but you notice it's the very last thing because that chiropractor example would give. He pays his mortgage off, but that was after everything else was paid off. It wasn't before. So I just think the opportunity cost the people would give away by trying to pay off a mortgage using this is far greater than anything they will ever get from paying their house off. And once you got your house paid off, what do you got? A bunch of bricks and mortar that you can't... What up? What? What can I do to convince you that 30 year mortgage is a great tool versus a healer? Show me a 30 year mortgage not issued by a bank. Okay. But he locks are issued by a bank. They are. And I do use banks. And so you're right, you're right. But even like a healer, I would argue that a 30 year mortgage sold the note is safer from being called than even a healer. They are. So it's just like... Yeah. Well, I don't know if you need to convince me that 30 year mortgages are great or not great. I guess it's a tool that everybody knows is going to use. And I'm not out there telling people... Totally. I mean, I got maybe two videos that says, hey, here's how I'm paying off my mortgage. Totally. But remember, I'm paying off my mortgage because I'm financially able to. And like, I have disposable income that I can put here there. But like, I just don't want a mortgage with the bank. But you see, when I pay the house off, guess what I'm going to do? Get a big old fat healer lock and lend from that. So it's a same darn thing. So I'm not disagreeing with you at all about mortgage. I think they're never going to go anywhere. I think they're a great tool to be used. What is your thoughts on the people out there on TikTok, especially just pitch in infinite banking? What are your thoughts? A lot of them are using it. I.U.Ls. But like, even before that, like, and again, with a good, you have bad. You guys inspired a lot of people around this concept. A lot of people are looking at your videos and saying, I'm clipping this. I've had people use my book and pitch garbage. That's the cost of putting your name out there. What is your initial thoughts on the lot of noise out there that we're part of? And what are the things that make you cringe inside? So first off, I'm flattered. I'm flattered that there are people out there taking my content. I don't get mad when I see somebody repurpose my video to try to sell I.U.Ls. I'm actually flattered because they found my video and something in their rank to them. But then they went to the dark side and they said, I can make a bunch of money. And they're putting themselves before their client. And they're not giving first. And that is where I really have a problem. I.U.Ls, I will never like, but I've been doing this for 21 years. And in 21 years, I've watched the rise in fall of U.Ls, the rise in fall of U.Ls. I've seen the cycles of these new fancy pitched vehicles that pay high commissions. And I.U.Ls will go by the same path as all the others. They will not make the long run. I don't care what anyone says. They'll always be around, but they won't be as prevalent as they are now because they will fail in the next economic downturn. And people will see the colors of them. So I get mad, but I also recite the serenity prayer a lot. And I understand the things that I can control and the things that I can't, and I know the difference. And I can't control what other people do. So why? It's kind of like an eagle flies. You know, when a crow is one of the only birds that will attack an eagle, but an eagle never attacks the crow. Never goes back and it's a second waste of time on a stupid crow when it's an eagle. And so if you're going to be an eagle, be an eagle. Don't waste your time trying to fight crow. I'm just done fighting with them. Done fighting with them. And that's a relatively new thing. But is it the only thing that you disagree with I.U.Ls or anything else that people are saying? No, I disagree with a lot of the ways people are teaching. You know, they have been making concepts. And I think, well, like they don't even understand what the process is. They think it's just a product. And they're trying to sell a product and say it's IBC. IBC is a process. Our Nelson Nash. And I think that's the one thing I disagree with. All these people on TikTok. And we'll just pick on TikTok because it's the easy one to pick on. You know, they're talking IBC, IBC, IBC, IA. We do IBC. They don't understand IBC because they never read Nelson's book. They never went through and became an IBC practitioner. And therefore, I think they're just selling a bag of lies. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we could unpack that. I try to keep the Nelson's vision alive. Yeah. So let's talk about the process there. What is like, what is the key to the product? Like we, we talk about process of product. And you talked about your elevator pitch. It's like one thing, one step. You change one thing, one step. What, what are the, like, what is the essence of the process? Circle. Okay. It's a circle. Your money starts on the left side of the circle, the opportunity zone from the opportunity zone. Your money has a chance to go work for you, paying off debt, buying cars, investing in real estate, you know, lending money out. But it's, when it's working, money works for you. And it will always work for you 24, seven. I'm like, we can't work 24, seven money can't. And when it works for you, it makes more money. And when it makes more, you complete the bottom part of the circle and you send that money back to its original source, which is your banking system. The more times, like monopoly, the more times we can go around that circle, the more wealth we create and the more good we do out there. And we do it in full control. So that's basically the big thing I do is I've a little simple, if I had this whole thing to a circle, just move money around to circle and you're fully in control of it. Yeah. And you could put your money in a same account, but life insurance over a long period of time, I do teach five, six, seven. I even teach that because it's easier on me saying, like, Australia, New Zealand, other countries, they can't, they don't have the vehicle. They don't have the machine. So I teach infinite banking, using bank accounts, broker accounts, which is beautiful because it's like you see, grow, every year it should grow if you're paying yourself back because every year you're, but then it's like if you just switch out the product with the properly stretched. Then it becomes more efficient. You know, it becomes, yeah. What are any thoughts on designing life insurance? Do you have any thoughts around like your, your two cents around designing? There's some people are heavy front loads, 10, 90s, like, or is it just every person's different? That's my answer. They're all good to solve a specific problem. Every design works if it solves the proper problem. I think what I don't like, and I'm not gonna use the name, but you know who I'm talking about, are the people that go out there and say, this design is the best, that's a lie. No design is the best. Nelson 6040 is not the best, the 9010 is not the best, there is no design that's the best because no one has the same problem they're solving. And if everybody had the same problem, great. Maybe then we could make an argument that there's one design that's the best, but until that day comes, and it never will. Everybody's problem's different, which means every planned design has to be unique to solve the problem. We had someone in a firm come in, and we actually had to give them a higher, like we had to give them a majority of base policy because I'm in a state purpose, and there was a lot, it was like, but I never thought in a million years, knowing what I know about life insurance, that we would design this, but this design was like the best fit for this individual, and they were super well educated. Like they were the ones working with us, and it was like, it just goes back to what you're saying, is like, you gotta get really clear about where you wanna go, what you're trying to accomplish. Remember, life insurance is just a tool, part of the process, and that that tool needs to be designed as a proper foundation, and some not all foundations are created equal. If life insurance didn't have any other benefit other than the rate of return and borrowing function, unpopular opinion, I don't think what we do is that valuable. If people understood what I know about life insurance, then how it can be set up and used. They would literally be a freaking line-up side of the door. I told this to an executive insurance company, and he said, no one will ever line up through our life insurance. Nobody wants to buy anything, but everybody wants what life insurance does. I agree. How many people actually go through that? They want everything whole life does, but then when you tell them what it is, they don't want it anymore, that's sad. Why do you recommend people use infant and banking by cars? Why haven't you gone through and become an IVC practitioner? It's a great question. There's really two answers I'll give you. I'm gonna ask you a couple of hard questions. You ready?