If somebody says whole life insurance is a scam, then they would almost have to say the same thing about real estate. We say that you have control, you have restrictions and all. And if you're a critic, you can say, well, don't you have more control in the same account? How did you come up with the certainty, control, efficiency, and liquidity? What whole life insurance brings over to your side of the table when you understand it and when you're using it properly, you don't get to control the repayment schedule on a home equity line of credit. And the interest is not necessarily working in your favor. When you say working in your favor, like it's a higher interest rate than insurance companies, what do you mean by that? There's multiple layers of protection in the form of death benefit, chronic illness rider, disability waiver, a premium, and creditor protected against lawsuits in most states. The wealth is created through certainty, control, and efficiency, but that doesn't happen without liquidity. What did you say that got Dave Ranzi to block you? Nate, welcome to the Better World Show. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. We've known each other for multiple years. You're your crushing it, especially on Twitter. You're like known in our industry and space for being like the infinite and banking guy on on Twitter. I think you've been blocked by Dave Ranzi. That might be one of your top credentials in the financial space. And we're going to be talking about all things practice, frameworks, infinite banking, life insurance. You actually put out a four-minute video that I think does a pretty interesting job explaining all things infinite banking. And since this channel is very familiar with whole life and all I thought we could react to it. But before we jump in, why don't you give just an overview of who you are? How do we know each other? Just your money mindset, epiphany, is before we jump into your video. Yeah, so my name is Nathan Dean. My friends call me Nate. If you want to be friends, that's a good place to start. My wife and I have been married this year will be 22 years. I don't look my age. You and I both have that in common. I've got four kids. My two boys are the oldest. They are 17 and 20 now. And then my two girls are 14 and 11. And we live here in Southeast Texas in the Belmont, Texas area. And I've had the privilege for the last six years of running my company unlimited life concepts. We call it ULC, for short. And we specialize in the infinite banking concept. Just teaching people better ways to control their capital, create certainty, efficiency, liquidity, all those things. And the epiphany that I had was in 2017 when I read the book, Become In Your Own Banker, about Nelson Nash. And up until that point, my financial acumen was built around day-brands, you know, of all people. Save up, pay cash, buy term, invest the difference, all those things. And so I was just kind of following that model and just realized that even though I was doing everything the way I was told to do it, I was just not really satisfied with my results. I just felt like I should be further ahead than I was. And didn't really understand where that was coming from until I started to understand how money actually works. What did you say that got day-brands to block you? Hey, I want to interrupt real quick and invite you to an in-person and asset mastermind that we are hosting for the financial professional. This is for the person that literally helps clients use these strategies. And if that's you and you want to meet me and so many amazing other people in person, we are going to be hosting an event June 27th and 28th in Denver, Colorado. It's my third time hosting this. And the whole purpose is to connect, connect, connect, connect. You with amazing people, connect you with amazing ideas, connect you with amazing strategies that can elevate your business. Garrett Gunnerson is going to be present. Tom Wall, we have Welk Nation, Denzel Rodriguez, Chris Karpatrick, Ryan Lee, Todd, Langford from Truth Concepts, David Anderson from Life, Income Process, and so many more people. It's going to be an incredible room. And if you again are in this profession, in this space, you won't want to miss. Go to ambasset.com to check out more information. I hope to see you in June. It was kind of funny because it wasn't even me commenting on one of his videos. It was someone had seen something that he said about Infinite Banking. And somebody had tagged me in one of one of the comments on Twitter. And I just made a comment to their comment. And it was just somewhere along the lines of, yeah, I used to do things like that. But then I learned I learned some things that I believe are more efficient ways to get out of debt. And I was all said. And apparently, he probably didn't do it. It was probably one of his his minions that he has working for. But they went on my profile. So all that I was in Infinite Banking guys said, nope, get out of here. So it's so interesting. I want to give the benefit of doubt. I I'm going to block someone. I probably have me maybe in your world, you have to block people because they can harass you. But I just I find that funny. And like, I just find it funny. This whole concept of blocking like, wouldn't you want to expose bad ideas? And wouldn't like, I don't know. But it's maybe, maybe, you know, thought or differing opinions could be, could be problematic if you're trying to build movement. Well, I know you've done a reaction video to Dave Ramsey's video that he put out a few years ago about Infinite Banking specifically. I mean, the title of the video is Infinite Banking as a scam on YouTube. And it's funny because I believe that the message has become so loud. Yeah, that he can no longer ignore it. So he finally had to put something out there in response to all the things that are being said. And you and I both know there's a lot of bad information that's in that video. Yeah, yeah, not and I'm always on one hand really impressed with what he knows about life insurance. And I'm, I admire his his dedication to staying in his lane. And I think he's helped a lot more people than he's heard. But I also, you know, with that, there are people that seem to get hit in crossfire. I think I sometimes feel like we represent the most misunderstood asset out there because even the people that are pro are for it. So our friends misrepresented. And so they're like on the side of like loving life insurance. And then obviously, you have people that hate it. I think there's a lot of misunderstanding. And so before we jump into your video, what are things that you thought to be true when you first learned about infant and baby even maybe taught, but now, you know, now in 2024 and beyond, you're like, Oh, I'm probably going to take a step back on that or I maybe miss understood that because I know for me, I have a lot of examples that I could go through if you want. But I'm just curious if you have any or if you just are like doubling down on certain convictions. Yeah, I think a couple of different things. One was early on, I believe that policy loans were just something that you did for pretty much everything in your life. So my thinking is definitely evolved on that front because I do believe that cash value inside of a life insurance policy is really represents the strongest dollars that you can possess in your life. And the reason why is because their dollars you can leverage in an environment that you control. And there's nothing else on the planet you can do that with. So we need to treat those dollars like the value that they truly represent. Yeah, the other thing is it's not spoken of a lot in the infant and banking community. And I think it's one of the things that we've evolved in over the years is just the value, the true value of the death benefit and understanding what that allows you to do because when your death benefit is equal or greater than your assets at the time, that gives you a lot of permission to enjoy your assets. And one of the things our mentor Trent Fortner has told us and I don't know if he said this or he got it from somebody else. But when you are able to match a guaranteed event which is death with a guaranteed contract which is life insurance, that creates a lot of freedom in how you want to operate your life. Good. It's good. I think I would love to double click on this concept of cash value being the strongest dollars. That's really powerful because a lot of times we look at internal rate return and you look at the rate return and you would compare it to any other rate return vehicle. And you could make the assumption that I'll like in a high yield sales account. I can potentially get a greater rate return. But if you look at the dollars and the jobs that that dollar is giving you versus the dollar, the dollars and the job that's giving you in a whole life insurance policy, they're very different including like the one dollar and it would be cool to like visualize this sometime. Maybe we'll will do that. I think this let me know in the comments if you'd like to see like a video of me breaking down in this individual format. But like I even imagine like one dollar in a in lights to say a high yield sales account gives you liquidity, if you control, if you safety, probably could come up with a few other things. So that's that. And then you take other assets and what are those dollars do? But then you put overfunded whole life insurance and you know, safety, control, tax advantages and an amplified and leveraged death benefit, a guaranteed leverage death benefit, privacy, you know, and there's in you start stacking that and you go, okay, yes, like like we have to understand that not all dollars are created equal. And I think that is something that's very, very hard to grasp. I don't know if you have a follow up to that. But I think that's a powerful concept. And I think we could do a better job fleshing that help because, you know, sometimes if you just look at an illustration and you're not illustrating that for people, people are it's so easy to compare it to other assets. And it's a shame if we don't help people understand like, hey, this is not necessarily an Apple Staffel's comparison. Well, I just happen to have this book laying on my desk and I'm sure you're very familiar with it. Confessions of CPA by Brian Bloom, capital equivalent value is something that is left out of conversations when it comes to trying to compare other assets to all life insurance. And there's a few different things. One is that aspect of capital equivalent value, but also what is the power of controlling capital in your life? And we're talking about controlling. We go back to that aspect of having having your say so on what the environment is as far as how and when that money gets repaid back to your system. It needs to be repaid back to your system because if those are the strongest dollars that we have, when would you want to reuse them again? Yeah. It's often as possible. Yeah. When you talk about policy loans, did you when you first got into this kind of had this mentality of like policy loans are like the secret and it's like the more I the more I use policy loans like the better it gets. And now looking back on forwards in your mouth, and now looking back like, okay, maybe it's not the amount of time. Maybe it's the the act that I don't know I don't know the pit's need that I had was it's like our goal is to maximize savings and give our dollars more than one job. And period like the being your own bang recapturing interests and all doesn't actually logically make sense when it comes like it sounds good. I understand your recapturing opportunity costs. You're paying the insurance company which you are an owner of so you could say that. But for me like being like a super analytical person that really tripped me up because I'm like, right, help me understand like help me understand like taking a loan by groceries. Like how does that help me? Oh, oh, it doesn't. Oh, oh, like and you kind of feel like betrayed a little bit. But I also understand like the argument is well, you're helping people save more, but it becomes an ultimate Ponzi scheme. If you're sure you're not making more money, that's the problem is like I don't I don't want to set up a system that only works if you're making more money. I want to set up a system that like is foundational. And so the thing that I grinds my gears when people take a very safe, amazing asset and make it risky by being too aggressive. I don't know if you have thoughts on that. So every now and then somebody will say, okay, so I just put all of my money into this policy. And then I can just take a policy loan and live off the the money that month and then keep repaying the policy loan and everything like that. I'm like, why? Why would you do that? Because if you're just taking a policy loan out to repay it a few days later, that's such a fast movement of money. There's not really any value that's being created from that process. And you and I know like policy loans, there's prepaid interests that subtracted out of front. But once you pay the policy loan off, it's perverted back to you, you know, a portion of that goes goes right back to you. So when you look at that overall, like that's not really that's not really going to move the needle that much if at all. So our philosophy is major purchases when it makes sense and investments because ultimately when you take a policy loan, you want to have a plan on how that money's going to return. And in my opinion, when you have an asset or an investment that you can put into that's going to create some sort of return back to you, well, the best place that that can go is right back to the dollars that gave you that opportunity to begin with so that you free those up and have them available to you again. So yeah, I'm not a huge fan of just randomly taking policy loans because you need to pay this or that or whatever. There are situations that we've come across where it made sense to get someone out of debt by structuring a policy where they could borrow against it very quickly and sort of refinance that debt away from the bank. But it wasn't them necessarily coming out a pocket with money that was sitting in the bank to begin with. It was usually some random account that they had that had had just been sitting like an old 401k or IRA or something like that. And we've never told anybody what to do when it comes to those accounts. You know, this is not investment advice. But please don't do it. Nate has a family. He's got a family. He didn't want it all our suit. All right. When you teach people what's really going on and you teach people how they can gain certainty and control with their money and the value of liquidity having access to capital and things like that, they start to make those decisions on their own. And when they work at a dormant retirement account that's just sitting there, they ask themselves the question, what value is this creating for me right now? What value could it create? I would love and I'm just again, verbally processing this right now with you is almost to create a calculator or a visual for people to almost do like person A versus person B or like scenario A versus scenario B. What you do is you go, okay, scenario A is I use my life insurance policy fund, pay off debt, and maybe mathematically it takes a few more months, which means you are actually paying more interest, but you look out over a year, five years, 10 years, 15 years, and you see the benefit. And just like we said, the strongest cash like there's other benefits that you get versus maybe liquidating this over here. And then you know, start, so then you look at column, you know, scenario A versus scenario B. And I like that because you can't, we can't say like, you know, this, this is always better. It's almost like saying higher net worth is always better than making triggering for some people, but you and I both know that a lot of people are, you know, maybe look at their balance, but what they should be asking is what is this going to generate cash and not all, not all counter created equal. And that's not, it's just, it's just, that's just a fact. And so it's like, what are, what are we actually trying to, what outcome are we trying to create? And then what, how much do we value different jobs? For example, this, this scenario B might have $10,000 more money over 10 years. Okay. So $10,000 more in cash versus scenario A, the life insurance route might have less cash, but you might get other benefits, a death benefit and other things. And so you have to ask yourself, do I value these other benefits more than, you know, the cash and, but that, that's what I think we all could do a better job on. But I think if we did that, people would actually realize like, life insurance is incredible, and I really appreciate that you're giving me both scenarios. And I also think the peep, it exposes the people that really don't care other than the, all you care about is this the liquid cash. You probably, you probably not gonna resonate with a lot of things that we do here at Better Wealth and working with you and a lot of our colleagues in the space. So I know, I know, I was like, hey, we're gonna jump right into this video and we're, we're already 16 minutes in. But I think it's again, it's, it's important for us to build the foundation as we, as we dive into your video. Well, there's two things that come to mind. One is Bob Castelon, which is the creator of the leap process and program. He said, math is not money, money is not math. And so we have to understand that numbers going back to capital equivalent value numbers are not always equal when it comes to the value they create. And the other thing our friend Matt love actually said this on your show, I don't care about the rate of return on a whole life insurance policy because I am the rate of return. It's something that Garrett talks about. One of our mentors is I can buy my net worth and then I just get to play in that process. Like I just get to enjoy and I get to go play. So and it really goes back to his philosophy of win and play. Yeah. His book, money on mast. We're like, I'm creating the rules for myself and now I just get to go enjoy that process. I love it, man. What we're gonna do is we're gonna watch your video. Gonna take a ton of self control for you and me to keep our mouth shut. Okay. I we're gonna get real time reaction. But then we'll go through it again and we'll, we'll come in and my hope is that our audience will check your channel out. Subscribe to your channel. You're doing lots of great things and it'll it'll be fun. It'll be fun to see the reactions from people. So we're we're gonna be reacting in real time. But I would love to hear from you in the comments. What do you love? What do you do? Nate's got tough skin. He's on Twitter. I mean any any comment on YouTube. Trust me. It's we're playing in the minor leagues. Everything that's been said to me. So let it fly, ladies and gentlemen. All right, here we go. Infant banking concept can be complicated. But I'm gonna break it down and make it really easy to understand. Also going to give you free one-on-one access to meager.moutain at the end of this video. There are four main components to economic value that we focus on and promote through our strategies. Certainty, control, efficiency and liquidity. You'll see all four of these as we walk through this. You should be receiving some form of income. You can be working for someone else, running your own business or you may even be retired. Yes, this can work for you too. When you receive your income, there are really only two things you can do with it. Money is either saved or is there various ways to save or it is spent in one form or another. But what if it was a place we could send our money to first to capture as many benefits and guarantees. We like to call this our family bank. Here are the benefits and guarantees. You have certainty in the form of guaranteed uninterrupted growth. You have control, which means you don't have to have someone else's permission in order to use it. You have efficiency in the form of leverage. Yes, you can borrow against it and make your money work in multiple places. You have liquidity. Unlike qualified retirement plans, you have access to this pool of capital that you are creating. You can also earn dividends. It's private, which means very little if any reporting to the IRS. It grows tax-free. There's multiple layers of protection in the form of death benefit, chronic illness rider, disability waiver, oprenium, and credit are protected against lawsuits in most states. It's non-correlated, not tied to the market, which means zero volatility or no losses. No restrictions. Your money can be used on major purchases, investments, or really anything that you can think of. Remember, it's infinite. Now, as we flow our money through our family bank capturing the benefits and guarantees, we can also simultaneously decide how we want to save or consume our money. Okay, you may be wondering how. I've said this since day one. If you have a basic understanding of real estate, this will be very easy to grasp. Let's say you buy a property in a guaranteed growth market. As you make payments on that property, a portion of the payment is applied to the principal balance allowing you to build equity in that property. Once you have some equity built up, often the bank will allow you to open up a HELOC home equity line of credit so you can access the equity for whatever you like. It's kind of like this, but so much better for all the reasons that I listed earlier. But very simply, unlike real estate, you have complete control of the environment. Okay, you've made it this far, so let me tell you what asset we are using. It's called dividend paying whole life insurance, but not like what you've heard about from talking heads out there. We specially designed this policy to accomplish your short term and long term goals. Just like with real estate, as you make premium payments into your policy, a portion of that goes towards the equity or what we refer to as cash value. The beauty of this, unlike real estate, is your money can only go up. Think savings account on steroids. Now, these mutually owned life insurance companies that we work with have been around for over 150 years. And they have a pool of reserve funds which allow us access and uninterrupted growth of our dollars because you can take collateralized non-credit scored loans against your cash value or equity in your policy. And the only question they ask is how much and where to send the check. Now you get all the benefits and the access to your money. And that is how you gain certainty, control, efficiency, and liquidity of your wealth. If you want to learn more, I highly recommend getting a copy of this book, but come in your own banker by Arnelsson Nash. You can buy it off our website, be the bank.me or Amazon. And if you have more questions and want to connect with me or my team, there'll be a link below. Right. So like anything, make me sit through and watch that. It can be cringe worthy here in your voice. What is your thoughts on that? And is there anything that you would have changed now, like looking back or feedback or overall, what's your initial thoughts on? First off, I love hearing my voice. So that's all good. I actually do too. Just not at one x-speed. I prefer. And people are like, well, you already have a high-pitched voice, Caleb, don't you sound like a chipmunk at 2x? No, thanks to our speed up method. I sound just the same. But I can't be in myself at 1x, but 2x I can tolerate it. One of the things that I say in there is that it grows tax-free, which really requires a little bit of understanding. If you treat it the right way, it can be a tax-free strategy. But you do have to treat it the right way. So there is some nuance there in understanding the difference between tax-free and tax-deferred. Why don't you, can you want to break that down? Because I think that's good that we break this down. Yeah. So as long as you, like, there's two different ways you can access capital in your policy. The way we recommend is through policy loans, because those are non-credit scored loans. And also, you get to control if you decide how on you want to repay those, you get to control all of that. And there's no tax implications on something like that from taking a private loan. Whereas if you took a withdrawal from the policy itself, if you exceed the cost basis on that policy, then that's when you can get into tax implications. Yeah. I appreciate it. I appreciate you mentioning that. I did a reaction to a video that I'm not sure is out yet. And I broke that down. And I agree. Usually, what I say is when set up and use properly, it's tax-free because this person said, if you set up your policy properly, it's tax-free. And it's actually no. You could have a perfectly designed policy. There's a world where you'd have to pay taxes. If you, even if you tax out the policy, there's a world there, but when you use it properly, a loan is not considered income. And as a result, it's an amazing thing. And you can use it outside of life insurance. That tax rolling is not just for life insurance, for a lot of different assets. Life insurance is just unique because you have this permanent death benefit that allows you to potentially take out loans throughout your life, not necessarily have to rate, repay them, knowing that you have a permanent death benefit that most likely will be growing, and will be there to make good on the quote unquote loans on your death. And so that's a way for people to borrow, borrow, and then die, and have it kind of white clean. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of information in that video. So if somebody was just exposed to that for the first time, I would say they probably feel like they're drinking from a borrowers right now. All of those concepts that are spoken of can be broken down in very simple terms with conversations. If somebody's willing to learn and press into those things that are maybe foreign to them right now, those things can be broken down. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. The only other thing that I would say is when you said no restrictions, I get what you're saying here. There's it's a private contract. I think the critics could say, well, Nate, there is some restrictions like the fact that you have to work with an insurance company. In fact, you got to get medical underwriting. The fact that you don't have all your money from day one, like it's funny how you and I are like, no, it's not necessarily a restriction. Like I got cooked the other day when I talked about annuities and like different fees and surrender charges. Like they're actually different things. They are different things. But I said in, I was like, there's no fees and annuity. And then I said surrender charges and I'm telling you the I got destroyed. I got destroyed and rightfully so because I was like, all right, I get it. You're definitely, you know, that sounds really bad for me to say that. And I think the same thing goes with restrictions. We say that you have control, you have restrictions and all. And if you're a critic, you can say, well, don't you have more control in the same account? And we're talking about for your liquidity, I would agree with you. So I don't know your thoughts on that. Well, the concept in no restrictions, there's a little bit of an explainer that comes right after that. Yeah. Which is no restrictions. You can use your policy loans for anything you can think of essentially. So that's kind of what that what that's referring to. But what you're saying, I totally agree with. Yes, there are parameters. There are rules that we have to work in a abide by essentially in order to create this environment that we're looking for. How did you come up with the certainty, control, efficiency and the clarity being like the the four because again, I find like, man, like a lot of these are the, it's like the same thing four times. Here is how like you came up with this and then you went into other things like tax benefits and all, but I'm, you know, thoughts on thoughts on why these are the four. So certainty and control is something that we have spoken of from the very beginning. Nelson Nash talks about it in becoming your own banker. And you know, one of the going back to that concept or that idea of money's not math, math is not money. One of the benefits of the concept of infinite banking is having that peace amount and that control in your life. Yeah. Nelson, one of Nelson's principles is don't do business with banks. Some people may disagree with that completely, but for him in his situation, he was totally a peace with that. And there's a lot of people that that feel that way, especially people who come from the, the school of Austrian economics. Yeah. Where they fully understand what the banking system is and how they don't necessarily want to be a part of that. So there is unsaid value in leveraging policy loans to finance things in your life, even if the math doesn't necessarily work out. Okay. Just because of that certainty and control. So certainty and control are two things that we've been teaching for six years now. And as I started thinking through those things, it just became very obvious that yeah, those are important. But there are other aspects of there, there's really like four pillars, so to speak, that really is what makes all of this come together. So on our podcast, our new outro phrase on our podcast is wealth is created through certainty, control and efficiency. But that doesn't happen without liquidity. So learn how to leverage capital. And you can become a cash flow legend. So so there it wasn't like it was just one of those things that as I started taking a step back and thinking about all the things that we're a part of and just what whole life insurance brings over to your side of the table when you understand it. Yeah. And when you're using it properly, those four aspects just became very apparent. And really, when you think about your financial life, when you are subject to someone else's terms, there's not a lot of certainty that comes with that. Yeah. Obviously, there's not a lot of control that comes with that. When you don't have access to capital, when you don't have liquidity, well, then you can't create the efficiency you need to create. You can't get your dollar to do more than one job when somebody else is holding on to it. So you believe that you need to have liquidity to create well. I do. Okay. Let's put it in on that because I actually, well, there's there's there's two things. I'll say about that. Yeah. One is James Nethery who's a who's a big name in the IBC community. He says to the greatest frustrations you'll ever have in your life is when you have an emergency that you don't have money for or an opportunity that you don't have money for. Understood. Yeah. So positioning yourself where you have access to capital, I think is really important. Yeah. Let's let's put a pin in that because I have I don't want to derail. I actually gonna call a audible and I'm going to share my screen and we're going to draw through. It's going to be this is going to be this is going to go down as one of the best episodes yet. Two days. Also, if you're you're not subscribing to YouTube channel, we believe this or not believe it or not like 60% of people that watch our videos don't subscribe. The the algorithm shows our videos to you today, but they might not in the future, subscribe and like and it helps. So appreciate all of you in advance that help us out. I do in that and and you you don't want to miss out on great content like like this stuff. All right. So we're going to we're going to put a pin in that. Let's talk about the concept of okay tax-free. We already addressed that. Appreciate appreciate your understanding. When set up and use properly, many great tax advantages and it go it works very much like a Roth money goes in after tax. And you grow tax deferred. You can utilize your policy loan, which today in the tax code is income tax free. And then it will your money will get passed on income tax free again. If you have an estate problem, which I think a lot of people will, there's other ways to avoid that that you need certain trusts and all that we're not going to get into in this video. All right. So then we talk about you know, death benefit chronic illness rider disability waiver premium, you know, predator protection against lawsuits in most states. I believe every state has some type of predator protection. Some of this is just laughable. It's like okay, 15 grand. Thank you. Thank you California. Yeah, PSA, move out of California. Like just do it. You'll think it's later. All right. So anyways, so these this is what's interesting in this this lineup because talk about something that's hard to put a value on. You can't I mean, you can't put an IRR value on any of this potentially death benefit if you look at an estate value. But this is something that again, chronic illness rider, especially I want you to explain your own words, what that is. And when I look at like what the future looks like, I think everyone, like this just gives you more options. And I believe the person that has more options is wealthier or better off than the person less. I'd rather have more options than not. That's a definition of being a free person is options versus no options. Yeah, I mean, the the chronic illness rider is is really, you know, what it what it states. The if you have a chronic illness or something like that, the insurance company will allow you advancements on your death benefit. So that gives you the ability to take care of medical call un unseen, you know, unforeseen medical costs and things like that. So that becomes really valuable for someone because when you think about what could potentially happen to us as individuals, so many of us are operating off of the probability of what could happen. Right. But statistics don't matter when it's you. I appreciate it. Yeah. And so, and this is something Trent said to me one time and it changed my world. He said, Nate, what is the probability of you becoming disabled? And I said, man, I have a low key job like it's it's extremely low. And he said it's 50 50. And I was like, what? He said, it's either going to happen to you or it's not. And you're either going to be protected for it or you're not. And like I said, probabilities and statistics only matter when it's not you, when it's you. Yeah. Man, I would I would much rather have the protection. Yeah, I can I can speak to that just, you know, becoming a father recently. I, you know, the estate plan and all those things were or something that, you know, you know, I knew was important, you know, probably should have things in place. But you know, when everything's very simple, you know, the business, there's a lot of complex complexities in the business. But I were like the moment our baby girl is born. There it just it just became a such a different, you know, mentality and it had nothing to do with money. Like that's all kind of figured out. It's like, who's going to care for our daughter and like that? That just became like really, really heavy. And it's like, yeah, odds are, I mean, knock on wood. Like that's not ever going to happen. Like, ever going to happen while she's like a baby. But like if it did, like that became the thing that I thought about. And it's like, and that that amplified in other areas is is again, like it could be a statistic statistics say it's not going to happen to me. But it's it's that would be really dumb to live off of that way and not be responsible and set things up that could change the trajectory of people's lives. And this may come up at some point again. But when we think about our financial life, as we're growing our money through razor return and things like that, that is us playing offense. Yep. Well, the defensive side is the protection piece. And when we play really great defense, it gives our offense better opportunities. It's good. I think people should read this into that because I think a lot of times the thing that we want to talk about is offense offense offense. I've said this many, many times on the show, the ROI of zero is high for me, meaning like having liquidity, having a lot of liquidity allows me to show up powerfully and take bigger swings in air in business in relationships. And areas that I could argue that would be life changing. Not just like a 8% 12% annualized not life changing. Like it's it could, you know, maybe over time, great. Like I'm talking life changing and I'm only able to do this kind of stuff because I play really good defense. And those those of you that are in sports, you know, like you could have the best offense in the world, but if you had it, if you can't stop anybody, it's really, really hard to be consistent. If you have really, really good defense, like your offense doesn't have to hit home runs every single time to win. So back in 2016, Patrick Mahomes was the quarterback for Texas tech. And they were playing OU. And Patrick Mahomes threw for a college football record 734 yards and five touchdowns in that game. And when you hear that just by itself, you would think man, they blew the doors off of OU in that game. But on the other side was Baker Mayfield. And he ended up throwing for seven touchdowns in that game. 500 and something yards passing, less passing yards, but more touchdowns. And I don't know what the final score of the game was, but if you score 71 points and life scores 71, you still lost. Yeah. It's good. It's good. It's good. And that right there could be, you know, the worth of admission to this free YouTube show. So thank, thank you. Thank you for that. I just touch on home equity line of credit and how it and it correlates to IBC. I think it's pretty self explanatory, but I think it's a good analogy for people that understand real estate. Well, one of the most consistent assets available out there is going to be real estate. And in certain asset classes, you have equity that you build up inside of that asset and a bank will recognize that equity and they will essentially give you a line of credit against that equity. So you're able to access some of the equity and equity is just the portion of the asset that you own and control at that point, based on how the bank recognizes it. So having access to some of that equity, now you can keep your asset and still use some of the value of the asset simultaneously. So now you're leveraging capital, potentially. Now you are giving your dollar more than one job, but you don't control the environment. And there's a couple of things to that one is you don't control the value of real estate, whether it continues to go up or down, but it is one of the more stable asset classes out there that people use for accessing equity. So the other aspect of that is you don't get to control the repayment schedule on a home equity line of credit. And the interest is not necessarily working in your favor, so to speak. So with a whole lot of people, when you stay working in your favor, like it's a higher interest rate than insurance companies, or what do you mean by that? Well, the interest payments that are being paid back to the bank, you don't necessarily get to participate in the profitability of the bank, the way you do in a whole life insurance company. Yeah, I'm sure. Well, and that really takes understanding that the whole life insurance aspect of it in the policy loan, which you do, but with a whole life insurance policy, when you take a policy loan, when you build up equity inside of that, you take a policy loan against that, there's prepaid interest on a policy loan. There's a cost of capital and everything that we do. So we don't borrow money for free. Everybody would go out of business if we did that. So there's prepaid interest on that that we have to repay, but as we are repaying that policy loan, remember, we've got certainty and control on our side. We've got efficiency because we have the ability to do more than one thing with it. We have access to that capital through liquidity, all those things. So as we're making loan repayments, the interest is being paid back to the insurance company, but that keeps the insurance company profitable so that we get to participate in the long-term growth and the dividends. Right. Yeah. Just like if when insurance companies invest over a long period of time and get better assets that you and I don't have access to because we're nobody compared to the balance sheets of these insurance companies, like that's a good thing as well. If you had a HELOC and you had an IVC policy and your IVC policy was had higher loan rates in your HELOC, would you choose the HELOC over your life insurance or what's your framework of how will where you choose to go first? It would depend on what I was using it for, but I would say for me personally, I like the idea of keeping as much certainty and control on my side as possible. Yeah. So if I had access to both, it would depend on what I would be using what I would potentially be using the money for. Okay. Can I challenge you on that? Say it again. Can I challenge you on the why does the what you're going to use it for matter? It is in this. So if it was HELOC, if it was something that was a little bit more stable, something that I felt really good about, I might save my whole life insurance money for something that might be considered a little bit more risky. Because when I do have control of that environment, that gives me that gives me some rules to play by that I wouldn't get to play by with the bank. Okay. Yeah. No, I, this is maybe where I mean, we're talking about technicalities at this point. The way that I see it is, if I had my life insurance policy and HELOC, it doesn't matter what, if I'm, I'm going to separate the decision from how I'm going to finance that decision. If I'm going to decide to buy a car, like I hear a lot of times people are like, I'm not going to take a loan to buy a car. You finance everything you purchase. So it's like, did you not, did you pay for a car? Did you, did you drive a car that you shouldn't afford or whatnot? But it's like, if I decide I'm going to buy this thing, it could be a crypto, not investment advice, it could be a car, it could be real estate, it could be a vacation. I decide over here. Then the next question is, I look at my asset sheet and look at my control bucket and I look at different areas of where I could finance that. For me, if I had access to a bank HELOC and a life insurance HELOC or a life insurance, I would go to the HELOC most likely first and here's why is it especially if it was cheaper money. But even if it wasn't cheaper money, I probably would go to the HELOC because I just value control on my side. Then if everything hits the fan, now I have an asset that I control to at least pay the interest of the HELOC to figure things out. I think the problem becomes if I'm leveraging both. Then if you're leveraging both, then I want to make sure that, you know, if I'm leveraging both assets and it's really, really important that the activity that I'm using my HELOC for, I need to know that I have less flexibility there than I do on my policy. I personally just live my life with with buffer. And so having life insurance, like having that, I have the benefits of the flexibility and control, whether I use it or not. That's the key thing. Like I can use a 30-year mortgage, have a ton of liquidity over here and know that maybe I don't have a pay-off home when I have 15 months or 15 years of mortgage payments, worst-case scenario. Or, you know, if it's so, it's just a, you know, I've never actually articulated this on the show, but I think it's, it would be interesting to hear people that thoughts and the comments, who do you resonate with, and Nate and I are pretty much saying the same thing. It's just an interesting mental way of thinking. Well, and it also depends on the numbers that we're talking about because, you know, you never want to recommend somebody being over-leberaged. I agree. And if you, like you just said, if you were, if you were looking to put both of those things out there simultaneously, and you didn't have anything as sort of your buffer or safety net, you know, your control, if you didn't maintain that aspect of it, then yeah, I wouldn't recommend something like that. Yeah. Last point that we'll make is the short-term, long-term way to structure policies. This obviously is really key. It's like, over-fund. Is there any epiphanies that you've had around, like, over-funding? I've gained a lot more empathy for the life and trans haters out there because I've seen, I've seen a lot of people use my own book and I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I created content out there that people are using to promote bad policies. And that's just the cost of freedom of speech. What are your thoughts around policies and like anything of any epiphanies? I know that we talk about the processes greater than the policy, which I agree, but I think the policy in high its design matters. And it could be a big difference depending on how it's designed. Yeah. You know, for someone who is not necessarily in need of a lot of liquidity early on, and they are valuing the death benefit and the long-term growth of the policy and what that looks like. You know, it might be designed a little bit different than someone who is needing access to a lot of capital upfront. And I think we both from time to time utilize the single premium options when they're available and it makes sense for that person. Yeah. That could be a really nice feature for someone. And it doesn't necessarily violate the, it doesn't necessarily violate or get you in trouble or even close to the mecrules because there are riders and everything that are forced on the policy to make sure that that doesn't happen. Right. A single premium option is that it's a single premium option. It's something you do one time when the policy first goes active and then you just kind of settle into the normal premium going forward. Yeah. Yeah. And we both use term riders, PUA's, early liquidity. And so I think flexibility is also key. I think a lot of the talking points they steal your cash value. Not not really true when you actually look at like increasing death benefits and you know, it's super not flexible. Well, not true if it's properly structured and it's like super high commissions. Okay. Not true. It's its structure. And you have no cash value in the first year. Okay. Not true. So it's like, yes. And like that's where it's like, Hey, can we like be on the same thing? Like you want to hug? Like I'm with you, man. Like I really am. And and it's just like, this is it's a bummer when everything's painted in the same. It's almost like saying like real estate to scam. There's a lot of people scamming people real estate. There's also a lot of wealth that has been created because of real estate. It's maybe less about the asset. It's more about the investor. Before I share my screen in any, because now you'll get to be able to analyze my way of teaching on under a microscope. Well, the since you mentioned real estate, one thing that I've said before, if somebody says whole life insurance is a scam, then they would almost have to say the same thing about real estate. Obviously, they're not the same assets. Right. They function differently and everything like that. But just in the ability to recognize that there is an asset that has value that you have the ability to build equity in, everything like that might have some tax free level treatment, things like that. Like you can't brush one off completely and just be in love with the other. And if you do that, it's because you just don't fully understand it yet. Yep. I love it, man. I love it. All right. You're ready to use me as a putting vague now. Sure. Let's go back to definition of well. Because you said liquidity creates wealth. I want to just address that. How do you define well? For me, wealth is not a number. Essentially, everybody has a different definitions of wealth. Personally, I like the idea of kind of attributing that to financial freedom. Yeah. And with that number being, if I've got money coming in from my assets that are offsetting my expenses, then by definition, I am financially free. And I can continue to work in the job that I'm a part of now. Yeah. It might enable me to go work in a business or something like that. But wealth is going to be different for everybody. Everybody's going to find it differently. There's there's there's a drastic difference between being rich and being wealthy. That's for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Rich is rich can be having a high income, but not necessarily being able to keep any of it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's it's may study of stoicism. Recently, I've just I'm really fascinated by like just looking back in history. I'm one of my favorite Bible verses is knowing that we're all going to fade away. The word of the Lord is going to last forever. And it's just like I know that all of this is this world is is fading. And it's so interesting to me that people hold on so tightly to two things that are ultimately going to fade away like their ego. Yeah. And my I mean, my definition of wealth is living intentionally. Just like I and so and again, that's I understand Robert Kisaki's concept. I understand that this is hopefully our our definition of wealth grows. But this it's one of the things that I like that's why I have a reminder behind me one life like you have one life. I believe you can live wealthy or choose to live wealthy even if you have a ton of debt. Even if you have like yeah, there's there's elements of can you be 100% intentional if you are enslaved to the system now. But but I also like that that's so my definition of well doesn't doesn't necessarily require liquidity across the board because it's like I the standard is the metric which is this is my intentional life. This is for me. This is what this is what a free man looks like is I want to live intentionally. So so then in my equation. Yes. Of course, that means a ton of liquidity because I just said like I'm a huge, huge fan of liquidity because it allows me to show powerfully allows me to run businesses and I have to panic every every other minute. Am I going to make payroll and also the you know, for me that's that's that's the key. What I found is I like to separate or divorce the intentional living life and what that looks like. And we understand its process not toe financial, but I'll show you in a second how we tie it back in because because I find that it gets people start thinking I know people that are choosing to make less cash flow and are choosing to live more intentionally and they'll have to be the ones that decide pros and cons. I'm not going to be the one that judge. I also know that people are crushing it in the financial world and they're divorced and their kids don't talk to them. Maybe that they don't care about that for me. You know, that would that goes into the equation. So I you know, again, it's just these are the type of discussions that are valuable because what is well and I find that a lot of people are chasing things and then they're going to get to the end of their life and then like, why? And I'm like, that's another thing that I'm like trying to have more conversations around is like, okay, we talk about goals and things that you should do and we're even incorporating like intentional living KPIs, which I think is going to be super fun. Like what are what do you need to be doing to know that you're like dominating? But I also think like reverse engineer that what are the regret list? What are the regret KPIs that know like I will regret this because I actually think those were better like I will rate like how many days of me not staying for dinner like those are the like those are the kind of things that are also interesting to me because we're we're so like we always all of our goals are like on positive things, but what if we just reverse engineer that and like I am terrified of being 85 or regretting. So what are the things that I would regret looking back at 85s and saying, okay, how what what are the if I reverse engineer those regrets? What were the inputs to that? And now now I'm like I'm way more self-aware to avoid years of drought. Thoughts on that before I get into my lovely drawing and if you have a hard stop please let me know. No, a few different things. One is reminds me so much of what Gary talks about in living in your sole purpose. Yep. And and that intentional living those things just go hand in hand, which I love from the perspective of regrets. We were actually recording our podcast this morning and I quoted Jim Rohn one of the things he said and one of his talks was if I would have known what some of the things were going to cost me that I went after. I never would have gone after him. And it's really important for us to take a step back and sort of count the cost on decisions that we make. I'm actually going through a book right now called the Road Less Stupid with Keith Cunningham. I don't know if you've heard of that one. Yeah, I don't have not really heard about it. So it's a required reading. Thank you. But it's got you know his his key in challenging you to spend some time thinking through your decisions and really like what's going on in your life is like when you're faced with an opportunity or decision what is the upside is question number one. What is the downside question number two? Can I live with the downside question number three? And at the beginning of the book where he says think about the three worst financial decisions if you could unwind those how much more money would you have made me sick at my stomach. And so now it's forced me to really take a step back and go man if I could just vet some of these decisions and opportunities through those questions and spend time thinking through those it's going to save me a lot of heartache in the end. Yeah, that's really good. I use that decision making framework all the time. What's the upside? What's the downside? Can I live the downside? And it has been it's been really refreshing. I also this concept of thinking and sometimes you know being high drivers like oh like what's the return on thinking like we got to be doing something it's like oh I've done and those of you that know me know that this can be tough at some time but I've done like clear everything just a no pad and just think and one another thing that I love about Keith is he talks about adding constraints to things. Sometimes we're like okay if I had no money this what would I do and I think that's really good is like no matter where we are try to like take things take things that you think you take for granted out and it makes you start thinking more creative and you know adding constraints is another concept I learned from Keith that was that I've been super cute. All right let's let's go into this. So here's my here's my framework so this would be like my version of four minute four minute ish video is is a number one starting with you you the human and we talk about what is well we talk about living why which is a form of understanding your values being self-aware of yourself what are the strengths that you have what are the weaknesses opportunities and threats what are the responsibilities that you have and really being key with that and and then also just getting really clear on what what does intentional living look like and from there we're creating like intentional living metrics we're creating vision and we're also creating identity and so there's a lot of different lessons within that but I I will like for me the most important thing first and foremost is do you value yourself as your greatest asset and like are you actually showing up on the balance sheet I know a lot of our friends like talk about this the fact that I don't have a balance sheet your ability to create is not on there is really interesting to me and I feel like the system wall street whatever we want to talk about it the system is not not designed to enhance the human being and and so you could make the argument that by funding that system are you in the wrong this is a people like I didn't sign up for a philosophy class I'm just I'm just asking questions like is it could you fund the system that ultimately is keeping people down you know I have friends that are like they're convinced that like we're just sheep and we're getting sheared for the sake of the ultra wealthy I'm not necessarily going to go that far I just like are the systems designed to enhance the human being I would argue to say no so anyways you have like you have a human and obviously there's strengths that they have and all not but like this is ultimately an input because you have your ability to create your relationships there's so many things that this human has but at the end of the day like the fact that we have we can create things is like the most beautiful thing I would I would say the one of the most beautiful things is that we were created and I yeah I won't even get into that but like when you look at because there's a reason the Bible started with creation story there's a reason why most face started with the creation stories like there's there's meaning and purpose to it so the fact that we can create is interesting and so so one of the things is like okay we create an input obviously go down this whole supply and demand like ultimately we're paid for our output which is either service or product and then the market tells us that service or product is valuable and so obviously if we want a greater output we have to look within look within or we need to look at like what are other levers that we can use thank you n' have all to increase our output but at the end of the day we create cash and you know currency we could go down the whole list of like what is currency currency is not money it's not a store of value it's it's only valuable because other people say it's valuable but it's the thing that we can exchange for other services or products and that's that's amazing okay so you have you have cash and at at the end of the day one of the other things that I would challenge of this whole idea of liquidity creates wealth is like again yes but I I believe like the greatest asset is yourself and I even did I'm working on a book project this is why this is all fresh for me and I would look that okay if you had $10,000 in you increased you know if you got 8% rate return over a year $800 increase which is amazing if you put $10,000 into you as a human being and potentially increased your hourly rate at $5 an hour and the you worked over 2,000 hours that's that's a hundred percent rate return on your money and you're now setting full or your skill sets you as a human being are more valuable whereas an 8% rate return could go backwards so it's it's it's one of those like where we invest our ability is created is amazing but this is cash flow is as there's no meaning there's no purpose there's no and like cash flow is just is stale it's just it's just money that ultimately is getting less and less valuable this is what I loved about your videos you have two things saving and consuming and that's what I use is consuming your control so consuming is money that is ultimately your life this is the cost of your life is taxes housing cars transportation giving this is the your kids your all you this this is the cost of living your life well like some people could push back on that but at the end of the day consumption is your life financed and hopefully it's an intentional that we could there's a lot of benefit of just tracking what your where your money is going and asking the question am I intentionally spending money to finance by intentional life and then and then money that's not controlled is saved what I love about saving is it's a verb that you're not becoming wealthy I mean Robert Hesaki says savers are losers saving is a verb and going back to your idea of liquidity liquidity like if you don't save anything you have nothing 100% is zero still zero you could be the best investor in the world and if you don't have anything to multiply if you don't have any cash flow the multiply would what are what in the world are we talking about so saving I use the word control because it's that same concept of like I'm going to take control of this money but just because I control doesn't mean anything not all controls created equal but control and then this is this is something I can't take credit for but the framework of like okay now I have control there's really two buckets of money I think a e stands for emergency oh it stands for opportunity and this is where this is where it's like okay money's got to reside somewhere and you could easily do this in a high yield savings account but money in a high yield savings account in emergency and then the opportunity stands for like one of my beno invest in am I going to invest in making myself more valuable am I going to invest in hiring people on our team and I'm going to invest in real estate am I going to invest in crypto now I'm going to invest in fill in the blank and you know hopefully the investment you know and I use question marks over here because it's it could literally be endless but hopefully these go back to here so now it's like I have active cash flow that I create and now we have whether it's called leverage I'm not a huge fan of passive it's just like it's demeaning but we almost have to use it leverage cash flow or we're doubling down and act of cash flow it's it's now we're our cash flow every year is hopefully getting bigger and over here we can figure out what is the return on control was a cash for return on control and then there's also like we not all assets are created equal I could get a 9% over here maybe a 5% over here but the 9% super risky and I'm not ex you know don't have expertise in all and so there's it's not just like oh a higher rate return is better than a lower either there's we have to look into that that's why I'm such a big fan of investing in you because usually the risk are less and the upsides like not even on the same and this is where life insurance are you on say something oh yeah and you maybe you may be going there but you were talking about you could put this in a high yield savings account and everything like that but non-times out of 10 in a in a relationship one of the spouses is going to be ahead of the other when it comes to money and decisions and things like that and I'm not saying who's who but in a high yield savings account if something happens to the person who's in charge so to speak the other spouse the other person is left with that money and not really the knowledge and information and you know all those things that could that could come from them still being around but when we're looking at whole life insurance something happens to that individual now there's a windfall which is a replacement of that if it's done correctly is a replacement of that person's income at the least so you have an insurance policy that's protecting your capital all along the way yeah love it love it and I'll I'll get there on just like the the thought process so it's like so then the last part that I would talk about is the umbrella and the umbrella just stands for risk management like obviously we want to ensure that if a health accident happened if the house burns down if we have to go to the emergency room if an individual dies gets disabled that this whole thing that we're building doesn't just collapse so we call you know we call this risk risk risk management and at the end of the day we can run different scenarios scenario A, B, C, D and we can look at you know pros and cons where life insurance infant banking whole life insurance comes in is your your spot on this action right here and it's saying okay my money's already got a flow some but where in a high yield savings account it's like okay gives me earlier liquidity check check check and gives me benefits but everything that we talked about earlier rewatch your video like okay but there's by me funding a life insurance now I give a dollar now my dollar is goes into risk management because it ensures my ability to create that if if we get sued there's certain benefits to that there's certain tax benefits to that there's chronic illness benefits to that which is another risk management there's like just go down list and that's when you're like okay over over the next 10 15 20 30 40 50 years this could be this could be an equivalent of millions and millions of dollars maybe not in cash value difference but it could be but in dollar benefits giving your dollar multiple job benefits and that's for me that's like that's where it be it's like you and I both agree on this like empthing and banking and life insurance doesn't necessarily make you the producer more valuable it could even get in the way of creating cat like I don't try to overhype things but at the end of the day when it comes to your money's got to reside somewhere which Nelson Nash gets all the credit for that your money's got to reside somewhere it's always flowing you know and instead of me funding the systems doing my thing and that's great like if that was better for my family I would do it I'm not I'm not one of these people that are trying to take down the system to take out the system I I want to do the right thing for my family but I also want to like I also don't want to fund a system that's gonna hurt my children's children's children you know so there's there's aspects of that that you know it's not all black and white but but at the end of the day it's a man life insurance in this concept is like even from the beginning I'm getting more like it's it's making this this scenario better and and so that's you know it's it's fun to look at different ways of I know that your video is literally just talking about the concept it was less about the process I would love for that have you come back on and make a video about the process the framework of how because I think there's I think that's really powerful when we can take framework and process and let's poke holes at it and then add life insurance so now now here I am question beat me up let's let's have a conversation around this um no problem it's mental framework I love it I think it makes a ton of sense and it gave me some ideas for some things that maybe I could do a little bit different with with my clients as I'm walking them through because what most people don't understand about whole life insurance is that it is just a perpetuation of your income yeah to the people that you love and care about good and I heard that not long ago said that way and I really liked I don't even remember who said it but I'd never heard it said that way before and but most people don't know what that number is so there's a concept in in the in the underwriting world called human life value yes good yes actually what do you qualify for and I equate this to you know let's say you know you have a fairly new house Caleb so let's say your insurance agent calls you today your homeowner's insurance agent calls you today hey Caleb got great news I can save you 50% on your homeowner's premiums today if that's all the information you have that sounds great now the only thing you have to tell me is which half of the house you want insured officially who's gonna sign up for that good but that's what we do with our our human life value all the time when we're not properly insured unfortunately na ve half of America and probably Santa yeah um unfortunately is dumb is that sounds their people that would do it because they're they can't see beyond the future obviously that would be dumb because if something happens you're literally underwater with the bank yeah but that is you know that's just analogous to to what is sort of taking place right now when people are properly protected I love that example let love that example and I also it's so interesting to me when people they don't they'll yeah you're like you said they'll ensure everything else whether they have to or they just like yeah I you know I want to make sure but they like they don't they don't value their ability to create and they're like it's like a battle and it's very it's very interesting so it's it's very it's very interesting and I think we're doing I think we're doing we're trying to have conversations that hopefully will elevate the conversation and whether you're whether you are someone who helps clients set this stuff up I hope this conversation's been helpful please check out what Nate's doing please follow him on twitter and some other other places Nate I want you to be able to share where people can find you but also like really get clear about why you're doing what you're doing and I would I would I would ask like if you're helping people get results are you getting results in your own life and if there's one thing that I think hits home is like across the board hypocrites are just not someone that are high on people's pedestals and I find that a lot of people in our industry in our profession are hypocrites their financial coaches are a mess behind scenes yeah and almost every area of their life yeah um um hit Nate's like this episode really big trouble yeah I thought we were coming on to to a react to a video not yeah we we run into that from time to time where you meet somebody and you get to know them uh like you see them you see them in one light and then you get to know them and you're just like I'm just not as big of a fan of this person as I once was now what I will say is there's a massive difference between admiring someone and then them being very transparent and open with you about their failures and their successes all the way then somebody who's just hiding behind this curtain hoping nobody pulls it back I agree and I think it comes down to intent and uh there's I mean I started with no money and I'm grateful so it's it's less about a balance sheet and that worth and it's more about the intent and the intent was always pure and I think people saw that and um I think yeah and when it yeah there's a lot that we could unpack there is there anything that you want to do as we close I know that our whole relationship has been fun as we look back and how we met and how we how we've grown together um but I'll just hand the microphone over to you and I would love nothing more for the the dedicated listeners and watchers of this show to be able to check out what you're doing and support what you guys are doing as uh because we're all out of this movement of really helping people wake up and let's read absolutely and one of the the beautiful things about this space is there's really no competition um there's so much value and collaboration and the outside world would look at both of us and go oh they have competing businesses no we don't like we have a collective mission just to help people and like you said just help them live more intentional with what they want to do um if they want to spend more time with their families then let's let's help you accomplish that um if you do want to be an entrepreneur well how can we come alongside you and help you with that um so at the end of the day you know we're just doing the best job that we can to help people create the life that they want um like you said you know we only get one chance at this um and uh unfortunately a lot of people live like they've got other chances and they only get one and so they choose to live a misery and man i it's so much more fun when you live in abundance so that scarcity mentality uh really in my opinion is is from the enemy um because god even says in his word that hey i didn't give you a spirit of fear i gave you a spirit of power and so anytime we anytime that we find ourselves in fear we have to understand that we're paying more attention to the enemy than we are the victor um but as far as like where people can can find me um you mentioned twitter so my twitter handle is at chronicles Nate uh i'm Nate the infinite banking coach out there on twitter um obviously have a youtube channel with the same handle and name uh which is where the the video is posted where you can you can find us there um websites be the bank dot me again as uh repeating what was already in the video but um just a couple minutes i just want to to share for anybody who doesn't know whenever i was first off like my heart's just been very full today knowing that we were gonna do this uh because i remember when we first met was actually at the Nelson Nash think tank event we were at this mixer the night before and you didn't have a beard at that time uh it was this was 2020 you know so flashback a few years and i see you sitting at this table and my first thought was somebody brought their kid like that was just my first thought but i can say that to you because you and i have both experienced the same things when it comes to not looking our age and sometimes that's been really frustrating in life but once you get out of high school and you know past college age it starts to become a fun conversation the k h bus um so i don't look my jea there i'm about to be 43 and so we just sat down and just immediately the conversation i just felt very connected to you from the beginning and we stayed in touch over the years and i heard this said recently that you don't understand how powerful your story is until you tell it to someone else and for me ours when you called me up in 2022 and you said i've got this event i would love for you and Brandon to come speak at in my opinion just thinking about my story i'm just like it just seems kind of normal and everything like that but you never know who's going to be inspired and empowered by your story and so the relationships that i have made through our connection and our relationship i mean i have new new mentors in my life because of our relationship together uh Garrett being one of those um and not only that i have new friendships that have been formed because of our relationship together and you know every new connection that we make is an expansion of knowledge and my knowledge since we connected has been drastically expanded and so i love you brother and i appreciate you so much for what you do. The feeling is mutual and this is what this is what i love because there's not a lot of males that are willing to talk about the things that we're talking about recorded that's going to go on youtube and hopefully regardless of what profession you're in you can share your story i think what you share about your story is powerful and and it's been fun man and like vice versa you it's a two-way street and it's been a a joy and it's been fun to see you guys grow an event like even having opportunities about conversations that we've had offline about areas that we can both grow to grow to play together i think that's that's the definition of abundance it's not like you're a better person the most selfish people if they think long term should be abundant um just think about that for a second it's like it's actually a better way to live your life more joy more money more friends like why wouldn't you want to be abundant and it's it really comes down to thinking short-term and uh you know i'm i'm a trekked other people that have those values and you and Brandon have those in spades and so excited for for uh where the feature what the future holds man it's gonna be it's gonna be a fun ride absolutely man looking forward to it