The GENIUS Reason Why MECs Can Be Good Retirement Expert Explains Daniel Rondberg

 A modified down-and-down contract can be a very efficient way to neutralize one of these risks. And the three risks are going to be long-term care, income replacement, and legacy foreign heritage. We're not necessarily saying that every modified down-and-down contract is literally going to come with a long-term care rider, though some could. But we're literally saying that whether it's critical in this chronic illness, long-term care, like that's beneficial. If you have savings, a modified down-and-down contract can be a great way to keep assets safe. You can still keep them liquid or very relatively liquid. But now you can add tremendous tax-free benefits. How could we remove key retirement risks that are still on the table? But just allocate savings differently to add those benefits in. I will not set up an IUL as a mech if it doesn't have at least waiver of surrender or return premium. We need to look at financial products not as good or bad. But we need to look at that as saying, how can we utilize this in your financial strategy to help you best accomplish what you want to accomplish? Always get an IUL. Always get a whole life. Never a mech. Always do this. And it's like they're trying so hard to grasp it and it's so frustrating for them. Because they're like, I don't know which way to turn. Like they get so frustrated. It's talked to one agent. He says one thing is see an illustration, the other agent to bunks it. It's like who do you believe? We're talking modified endowment contracts, meching life insurance. If your spidey senses are going up, you may want to watch and with an open mind. I'm here with Danny, Danny Romberg. And it's funny, Danny. A lot of these videos on this channel are talking about how you can max funnel life insurance policy. So it does not mech. And so I know that this could be throwing a curveball at somebody. But just to just to take a step back, we believe that you are your number one asset. We want people to live intentionally. We believe efficiencies removing any friction to get to where you want to go. And so we need to have enough humility to take a step back and say, we need to look at financial products not as good or bad. But we need to look at them as saying, how can we utilize this in your financial strategy to help you best accomplish what you want to accomplish? And you're going to talk about modifying endowment contracts. And we're not going to get triggered. And also, they're great. They're a great use of life insurance for the right type of people. And shocker, we've set up a lot of our life insurance contracts to be mechs, especially for people that are older. So without further ado, Danny, welcome back to the Better Well show. And I look forward to diving into this topic. I know this is going to get views. I know it's going to get comments. And I have a feeling that there's going to probably be a part two with all the questions that come up from what we talk about. Definitely. Absolutely. Kale, thanks, Sean. Man, I'm really excited to be here. Thanks so much for giving me a shot. Talk about mechs on your channel. It's, uh, I don't know. I was going to make a funny joke. There's no joke. Let's just let's just roll. Give me the framework. Give me the framework when it comes to Mac. Okay. So here's the deal, right? Everybody needs frameworks to help them deal with life insurance. So the reason why I got into YouTube was I don't, you know, it's not my primary marketing source at all. I've been in this industry 13 years and I relatively new to YouTube. I got on YouTube because I was tired of running into people that were getting trapped in like a great marketer or salesperson's framework when it comes to thinking about life insurance. It's really frustrating because you have always consumers online. They genuinely want to learn. They're going to all these different channels and they're like, okay, always get now you well, always get a whole life. Never Mac. Always do this. And it's like they're trying so hard to grasp it and it's so frustrating for them because they're like, I don't know which way to turn like they get so fresh. I talked to one agent who says one thing is seeing illustration, the other agent to bunks it. It's like, who do you believe? Right? So that's why I got into YouTube. A big part, a big shout out to you and your team for like really encouraging me in the beginning and supporting me to begin my YouTube journey. But it's important that we really help people to understand where you can use certain types of life insurance. So when we talk about Macs, we are going to be talking about age 60 and up. Okay. There's two phases of retirement savings. And they're, you know, you could break it down even more, but let's just keep it simple, right? There's going to be the accumulation phase and the decimulation phase. Okay. I want to be a hundred percent clearer. There would be right out the bat. A modified down my contract, I'm only using first age 60 and up in the decimulation phase. So this would not be like growing cash values with annual monthly premiums. Try to max fun. Right? This would be somebody who's in retirement and wants to fund this with one single premium or they could fund it with like 10 premiums and still make it. But the reason why mechs have a lot of value and Caleb, I'll be honest with you, I use them with whole life and I use them with index universal life with very specific parameters. Okay. But the reason why they're very helpful and I set them up for people all the time in their 60, 70s and 80s is because if you have one of these three retirement risks, a modified down my contract can be a very efficient way to neutralize one of these risks. And the three risks are going to be long-term care, income replacement and legacy or inheritance. And so I'm going to share with you where these three examples really, really lend to the modified down my contract. Now I want to touch on the index universal life piece real quick because I know that's a bit one here, right? Okay. The only way I'm going to use an index universal life policy is as a mech. Okay. In this example, it would be if it comes with return of premium or a waiver of surrender writer, that's really, really important. I will not set up an IUL as a mech if it doesn't have at least waiver of surrender or return of premium. The reason being is if the index doesn't perform, I don't want the client to be at risk of laficing their policy. I want them to be able to take out every single thing they put in, you know, with a writer that they can build an upfront. That's crucial. Okay. So I want to make sure that people understand that it has to have one of those two things on it. I'm not endorsing using it without those. But if you want to look at long-term care, okay, let me give you an example. There's over a trillion dollars of savings in banks and savings accounts right now. Okay. A trillion dollars of Americans money in savings accounts right now. A lot of that is concentrated in the hands of people age 60 and up. So people in retirement are sitting on cash. I see it all the time. Savings accounts, money markets, CDs, they just want to keep their money safe and they want to keep their money liquid. That's important to them. Okay. Now we're in an interest rate environment where interest rates are exciting for the first time in a decade. If you're a bank saber or a fixed rate saver, this is a great time compared to the last 10 years. Like we just work through a decade of low interest rates. Right. I remember in 2014, we put an ad out in the newspaper of the Arizona Republic for a C and annuity that paid 1% and people for coming into our office to get them. So I mean, it's just crazy to think that now you can go get five, five and a half percent of the bank, which is great for retirement savers. Now you have inflation to deal with too, which is problematic. But the primary thing that people want is safety and liquidity. The modified and down-and-down contract is unique in the sense that you make the death benefits so low and the premium so high that you actually make the contract. Which when when you do that, you're going, I go on, I want to make sure we talk about the negatives of mecking because we've never addressed what tracking a contract really is from a tax perspective. It's all it is is a tax status for a life insurance policy. The way it works is the death benefit and living benefits that are paid from the death benefit are still tax-free like life insurance. But now you take away the tax-free loan privilege. And so it's taxed more like an annuity while you're alive. So the gains will still grow tax-deferred. But the gains will be taxable when you loan them or take them out to yourself. That's the big negative. So again, the reason why you don't want to use it in the accumulation phases like I never buy life insurance or set life insurance up for people for the growth of life insurance. I don't think it's that I mean, it's you can make arguments that it can grow better than a savings account. But I'm not saying enough for that. I'm saying up for the utility of that money, the multiplying effect that life insurance has for me and other entrepreneurs and people in the accumulation phase. When you get to retirement, people in their 60s, 70s, 80s very rarely are looking at that. That's not the priority to them. They have different risks. They have different needs and different priorities. They're saying, okay, what if I need to have a long-term carry bet? How am I going to plan for long-term care without buying an expensive long-term care insurance policy that's going to actually take from my cash flow that I might never use? And then what happens all that money that I put in? And what happens if the premiums go up on me every single year? That could be very scary for somebody who wants to remove that risk. We know long-term care is going to affect like 70% of retirement savers. It's a huge problem. In fact, most annuity owners, they did a survey that about 75% of annuity owners actually are just saving their annuity in case they need long-term care. So it's a priority. So what do you do? Well, if you have CDs, if you have money markets, if you have savings, a modified and down-and-contract can be a great way to keep assets safe. You can still cheap them liquid or very relatively liquid. But now you can add tremendous tax-rebenefits to remove the risk of long-term care. And this is something that's really, really powerful people. They just didn't know was available. So they have these assets that they want to kind of just keep in CDs and savings. But now we can take them and add substantial tax-rebenefits to neutralize that risk without strapping them with a very expensive annual pay long-term care insurance policy. Because the premium is just one lump sum that you put in, and you can keep it as a discretionary place or an alternative place to diversify your savings. So you don't put all of your savings in it, and it's certainly not a savings account. But let me give you an example. You talk about an abundance number, right? An abundance fund and savings. I talked about your sleep well at night money. It's whatever it takes that you need to keep at the bank. You could basically write a check for anything and operate at your highest level, right? So you keep that in savings. But what we found Caleb is when we meet with a lot of families, there's such great savers and stewards of their money. And they're so, they live within their means so well that they actually save beyond that number. And then they get to a point where they have savings that is there unintentionally. And so this is where we get into a conversation about active liquidity and passive liquidity. Active liquidity is anything you would need to go use right away. Passive liquidity is money. You still want to keep safe and liquid. But you're probably just not going to use that would be a great source to say how could we remove key retirement risks that are still on the table, but just allocate savings differently to add those benefits in a modified down my contract with IUL, set up properly or whole life set up properly can do that phenomenally well. All right, so long-term care is first we want to talk about. Okay, so first thing that we're going to talk about is again long-term care. I like how you talk about passive liquidity versus active liquidity. You could even make the argument that even if it's active liquidity, a lot of times people get freaked out about, okay, I'm making a contract. So my money grows tax deferred, but anything over what I put in is now going to be taxable. Yeah, welcome to every other product out out there essentially. It's like, okay, I understand, but it's like this is, it's if we understand like, okay, it's yes, it's not going to be tax-free when set up and use properly. And I use these core connections because if you're 60, 70, there's an aspect of like, yeah, can taxes go up? Yes, but like we're talking about, we're already funding this with after-tax dollars. So it's like the risk is, I'm just letting you know like sometimes the tax benefit is used as a selling, selling deal. And it's correct. Oh, yeah, sometimes it's not like rational. Like some people, we've talked to people who are like, they just can't get their mind around it. They just, like they literally a mech contract would be better from a cash perspective, a death benefit perspective, a cashful perspective. All the things that we're going to mention in this video, but they just, they're like, I just can't get the fat. And I was like, what if taxes were 50% like, let's just throw this out there. Like, and it's just, it's a tough, it's because again, if like you've been in grain like, hey, life insurance should, you should not make your contract. But so I just want to throw that out there. Now playing devil's advocate, you talk about the long-term care benefit. What is your response to someone that says, well, what if it's not long-term care? What if we're using chronic illness riders and the living benefits on life insurance? Like, what is, how would you define that and how is it different to long-term care? And are you okay with someone having that, not having a long-term care policy if they understand what what it is? Yeah, great question. So let me say one more thing about the comment you said before this, then I'm going to jump to that. So again, anybody who watched this video, I don't want it. I hope there's no comments that say like, well, if I used to say, mechs were, you know, not good, or you know, why would you make a contract when you could just max fund a contract? Again, if your goal was to max fund a contract, then max fund a contract, that's totally fine. Remember the framework, right? Try to put yourself in the shoes of somebody who is in their 60s, 70s, 80s, who goes, wow, long-term care is my biggest concern. That's what I want to address. That's what this does. So it's specific to neutralize that risk, which is really, really important, right? And let's go back to why you mech. You mech because number one, you can do a single premium. So you don't have to, you're not on the hook to pay anything more. You literally get more early cash value. So you get more liquidity in a mech contract. And so those are two, those are like two big, big reasons to why someone would choose to mech versus max fund is like, it's literally better for you from your cash flow perspective and your situation from a funding. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Like we said, a whole life mechs that you have day one liquidity and day one cash value growth that you can walk away with. So for somebody who's a retirement saver and they have a CD or a savings account, you're getting a 10, 9, 9 for that interest anyway. So there really is no big difference in having taxable interest in a mech. In fact, tax deferred, you can control when you want to pay your interest in a mech. Yeah. I think that's actually a benefit to be able to decide when you want to realize your taxes. Because I see all kinds of people, Caleb, that they're coming to me because they're like, my taxes are too high on retirement. And then they have all this money and CDs and I'm like, well, why are you creating more taxable interest if you're upset about your taxable income? Why not defer some of that or change some of that? Right? So that's a big, you know, thing that we want to address as well on the taxes. But let me give back your question because my whole first book, No Stone left and turn was all about chronic illness riders on using life insurance policies. The reason I wrote that book was I had met with like 10,000 families at that point and realized that most people's wealth was contrary to 401k and a home. And if they needed long-term care, they were going to be in real trouble. And so life insurance creates leverage. You can build in benefits and instant estate access to money that you don't have today to protect you for certain risks. Long-term care can be one of them, but you can actually use things like chronic illness, terminal illness, critical illness, riders with a life insurance policy that can pay you. And you can make an argument that in some cases they have efficiencies that true long-term care doesn't have. So, you know, I don't I'm not saying one's better than the other, but we could do a whole separate video on hybrid long-term care max because the benefits of those for a pure long-term care perspective are so superior that you could actually create things that are really life-changing. I'll give you an example. I met with a lady in her 80s and her biggest only risk was long-term care. It's what kept her up every night. She was really worried. We were able to take an old annuity she had, reposition it, and literally like mathematically build in everything she needed for long-term care at age 82. So, like you can't do that with just a regular life insurance policy. You're going to need some kind of hybrid contract to do that. And that's where a mix are very valuable. So, for this segment of people that is in retirement and you have this risk and you haven't dealt with it, you may be able to do it more economically than you think if you have access to these mechs and these hybrids that can build in those benefits. So, I hope I answer your question while they both serve a really valuable need. And sometimes we'll do a combination of both because you can get different benefits for specific things that both have value and advantages in. Do you want to just explain how it works? If you get what triggers it and then ultimately you're spending on the death benefit. So, it's your option. But if you just want to explain how that works before we go on to pillar number two. Yeah. So, pillar number two will be income replacement. But it was so fragile about whether the macro chronic illness rider would like to run it. Yeah. And how that works as a potential replacement to long-term care. So, yeah. I think it's definitely a potential risk mitigation tool. I don't know that it'll ever be a suitable replacement for long-term care. But what's valuable about it is and where I use it a lot in my practices, you can go get either a whole life policy or a GUL policy. GUL stands for Guaranteed Universal Life, which means you pay this premium on time, you get this benefit guarantee to this age by the company. And those both can add chronic illness riders to them. And so, chronic illness riders means you can't perform two out of six activities daily living to the same way every company. And if you can't perform two of those, Dr. Certifies that you're basically permanently disabled or chronically ill, it will pay out portions of that death benefit to you tax-free while you're alive. Where that is extremely valuable is to say, let's say somebody has a 401k with the bulk of their retirement savings in it. Well, what we could do, Caleb, is we could take out maybe 1% of that 401k's interest every year. You could add it to a GUL or a whole life. You could maybe add in a couple hundred grand of tax-free benefits in the form of death benefits that also have a chronic illness rider. So now you just made somebody who maybe has 500 grand of 401k look like they had 800 grand for tax-free and 300 of that can potentially be tax-free specifically for care. They also can add critical illness riders, which can just pay on specific events as well. So I mean, you can add a lot of protection and leverage to someone's plan for, I mean, 401k or retirement if you can leverage those riders. And so a mech will do that as well, but instead of paying like a small amount of premium every year, you could just reallocate a dorm and asset like a CD or a money market and it'll actually have maybe two, three, I mean, even, you know, in some cases, six times a leverage for long-term care. And that's why they can be superior when it comes to long-term care. All right, pillar number one, I grilled around that, but appreciate that. You said pillar number two is income replacement. Incomer, this is huge. So a lot of times couples will fail to plan for the economic impact of losing a spouse. And they call out the widow's tax trap. They call it all kinds of things. It's really sad. I mean, you know, you have to look at retirement income really in a lot of cases as a woman's issue, you know, Tom Hagena talks a lot about this, like women live longer than that. I mean, those are just the statistics, right? And so, you know, a lot of times these women that live with the consequences of the strategies and things that you put in place together as a couple, they'll be either going to be really good or really bad. And so, you know, when you when you lose your spouse, you're going to lose the lower of the two social securities. You're also going to thrust that surviving spouse into a single-final tax bracket, not a married tax bracket anymore. You get the married the last year they're alive. But after that, you're in a single tax bracket. So your taxes go up, your income goes down automatically. And if there's not other things to kick in, the surviving spouse, sometimes it'll be the man will have a dramatic reduction in lifestyle. But I could tell you this from serving seniors for 13 years, Caleb, for every one nine-year-old man that I take care of as a client, I have nine, nine-year-old women. So, you know, again, I'm not saying this is just for women, but I'm saying it's really crucial to focus on income replacement. Another huge problem I've seen is single designations on annuities. So, single life designations on annuities. So, you have a spouse, two spouses that will take an annuity payment, they'll elect to take the single option on the husband. All of sudden that annuity spent through a lot of the money that's in there, he passes away. Now, she's maybe left with a very ministerial death benefit and income that's going to stop. This can happen with pensions as well, depending on the pension choice you took, you might have reductions in your pension. So, a lot of times what we'll do is we'll map out the economic impact of losing your spouse. And if there's a dramatic reduction in lifestyle and you're now combating higher taxes and inflation, income replacement is going to be important. Life insurance is a phenomenal tool to do that. So, going back to the mech, right? Maybe you can't qualify for full underwriting and simplified underwriting is better for you or maybe you don't have the cash flow in your retirement income scenario to dedicate $10,000 of your life insurance. So, what you can do is you can use one of these old CDs, bank products, annuities, anything that's sitting out there that's kind of just not really moving you cohesively to minimizing that risk to retirement. You can reposition that asset, reclassify it to remove that risk and protect the surviving spouse for income replacement. Those mechs come with large death benefits and you can actually structure in some cases even increasing death benefit where you can really have a lot of strong protection to make sure that your spouse is going to have the same lifestyle that you attended the whole time in retirement. I love it. I don't have much much to say there from a standpoint. I appreciate you flushing that out, but just the fact that you can make a contract. There's life insurance benefit tied to it. And at the end of the day, it makes other assets even better as well from you potentially be able to take out more income while you're alive. But most importantly, it's going to help you replace if and when a death happens. Yeah. So, love that. What's what's number three? Caleb, I before I move on number three, I just want to say the motivation for number two because it's really powerful. Like in my book, I talk about a story where and it's the same lady I've met dozens of times over my career where I'll do us like a talk where we'll teach classes on sole security taxes, retirement, all kinds of subjects, you know, community colleges around the valley or Arizona. And there's always some sweet little like 80 year old lady who comes up to me at the end of each workshop. And she's like, you know, my husband passed. I lost the pension. We lost the business. We dropped the life insurance. I have sole security. I moved to my daughter. Like, is there anything you could do for me? You know, and it's like heart-wrenching, man, I've had this conversation so many times. My only way to combat that is to get proactive and start changing the narrative and really getting out into as many homes as we can to help people say, like you could solve this problem really economically. And that's why income replacement so close to my heart is like I really want to help get that message out early. So that's crucial. But let's move on number three, which is in heritage. This was kind of a fun one. So, you know, long term care and death are not fun topics, but they're going to happen 70% I'm at 100% of time. So I feel like they're good problems, you know, cover. But in heritage is fun. Like, legacy is really important. I've met a lot of people in my career that I'll come across and they'll say, you know, Daniel, you can help me with all of this, but this account over here, I don't want you to even think about, I don't want you to talk about it. This is for my kids, or this is for my grandkids, right? And let's say, for example, they have $50,000 in a CD that they're saving for their grandkids that they want to make sure is their legacy and inheritance them one day. Well, I come along and I go, that's awesome. Like, I think that's incredible. You've been intentional to put that bucket aside for your grandkids. What if we put it in a Mac and what if we did one of two things? What if we took 25,000 of that put it in a Mac and made it look like 50 or 75,000. And now we liberated that other 20 for you to take the grandkids on a cruise and make a lifetime memory with them. Or what if we just took the 50,000 and maximize it in a Mac and bought a $100,000 worth of life insurance? Then we could actually double the gift you want to give them tax free. So, Mac's create efficiencies in terms of your legacy. You can build in things that are going to give people the tools to be able to maximize their intentions and really see their gift go to fruition in a really powerful way. So, I think legacy is also a really cool place. You can plug that in and have a lot of fun to say, okay, well, what if we did liberate some of this money? How could that benefit you in your life with your kids and family now? I think that's amazing, man. I think that's amazing. So, in summary, making a life insurance policy could be beneficial for someone especially if they're older. There is advantages of Mac for college purposes, but that's not what this video is all about. Not going to endorse or not endorse that strategy, but there's benefits of having your assets in life insurance when it comes to that process. But you're essentially saying it could be better for their cash flow, their financial situation. They get a long-term care coverage. And we're not necessarily saying that every modified and dominant contract is literally going to come with a long-term care rider, though some could. But we're literally saying that whether it's critical in this chronic illness, long-term care, that's beneficial. Then we're also talking about income replacement. We're also talking about legacy. I think you could add two more. I think you could literally talk about income optimization. Like having a life insurance policy help you just from a bond port. It could help you with this like helping you unlock other assets. Then the other thing is in the mechs that I've seen. Again, this is pre-interest rates going to 5% kind of deal. So I have insurance companies are always a little bit more slower to react. But when interest rates were low, like low, we're talking 1%, 2% amazing. We were mecking contracts. The internal rate of return over a long period of time were higher rates of return than what you could get even in a CD. But you had more liquidity. You had the death benefit. You had the tax deferred growth. You broke even in year two. I was like, why doesn't everyone do this? I get it. If you're young and you're like, yeah, if you can max fund and it makes sense, amazing. If you're watching this and you're like, hey, miss the vote on that. Life insurance is still could be an amazing asset for portion of your money. I'm really glad we're having conversations about this. I think we're going to have another video. So if you're not subscribed to this channel, make sure to subscribe. I think I'm going to do a video with Alden and we're going to actually dive into the numbers. Because I don't think we've ever done a video on that. It's kind of shame on me. It's like we need to make this more... We need to create a spotlight on what these things actually look like. Because for the right type of person, it's amazing. Yeah. I mean, it's important to start to help people to see not max or not bad. They're just a tax status for life insurance policy. They serve a great place in some cases. Pre-59, you're going to have 10% penalties on interest and stuff like that. So it can be problematic. That's why max funding can be better for like in the accumulation phase. But again, we're trying to be very specific about the phase of life we're talking about. The people are serving the issues they face. And they have way more use cases than the three I just subscribe. But those are just three simple examples of how they can really help people. And so it'd be fun to dive into the numbers. But it's also a fun place to say, like this is a place I actually use IUL and it can work effectively when you have these specific parameters put around it of return to premium waivers, renders, and safety, some barriers around it to make sure that people are going to be protected. And that's where it's really important to distinguish where you can start to use these for your retirement or just for your lifestyle. You're not going to have me pounce on you because you use the IUL words out of your mouth. I'm a fan of people understanding the pros and cons of certain things. And you're going to see more live debates or maybe live or put your accorded debates. But it's important that people hear all different perspectives. That's really important. And Danny, I appreciate you coming on talking about subjects that aren't necessarily the most popular. But on this channel, I think they're going to be well appreciated. Any final thoughts as it relates to Max, we're going to include your YouTube channel that's growing down below. And then obviously if anyone's listening to this and they're like, hey, I want to talk to Danny about like I'm in retirement, I want to talk to him highly recommended. And we'll include your link down below. Anything else that you want to say before we sign off? I just want to thank you and the Better Well team and everybody for watching. And I think the main takeaway is just, you know, don't get caught up in somebody's marketing message. You know, just because somebody's really saying that something's good or bad doesn't mean that that's true. And I think it's really important. And I want to thank everybody's taking the time to watch this content. And we're taking time to make it because we want to serve you the best way possible, which means that we're telling you know, things that we feel are true and that we can really represent honestly with integrity and that, you know, it's not that things are good or bad. It's just how you use them and will they serve you? And that's really the big takeaway. Yeah, for the way that I would answer that is we got to get really unemotional, take a step back and figure out number one, what do we actually want? Well, what is the result that we're hoping to accomplish? And then really look within and are like, what are the inputs, the friction, my situation? And how do I best accomplish that result? Like the best accomplishment of that result. And that's where we want to talk about optimize concept. And it's not always the best thing, but at over time, it should be the best thing for the data that we have currently. And I love it, man. And a lot of times we are emotional when it comes to our money or emotional when it comes to things that trigger us. But at the end of the day, if you take a step back and you have some of that can help you be because I'm less emotional about your situation, you're less emotional about mine. And so there's benefits of talking to someone that can really help you clarify that. And for that, I just want to thank you and look forward to future content. So if you have questions for Danny, if you have questions on the Mac, if you have questions about retirement income, annuities, and you want us to cover covered on the next video, please put in the comments. If you feel like there's people that are confused around this, share this video. It really, really, really helps. Like really helps us get this message out to more people like YouTube sees like, oh, you like this video, you commented, you shared like we are going to make this channel grow because obviously people are getting value from it. So from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you. Danny, thank you. And we'll see you next time.