8 Minute Money Manager with Brad Hart

 I want to respect and treat money the way it deserves your respect with respect because I see it as a tool to create an abundant life. I mean, abundance, you know, again, health wealth relationships. I'm not just speaking about toys. Like, I don't have toys. I don't care. I write a $3,000-dollar beater motorcycle and I borrow my girlfriend's car when I need a car, right? I don't buy stuff for myself, even though I can afford it because my goal is not to spend a dollar now. It's to make that dollar become 10, 20, 50, $100. So I think about every purchase I make, that's more than, you know, I don't make myself crazy. Like, obviously, I eat, I eat and I do things and I go to places. But, you know, when I think about like a purchase that's above what I would normally spend or a giant purchase, I'm like, well, it's a dollar now, but is it really a dollar or is it $20 or is it $50? I talk a lot about this in my book. Yeah. Yeah. So it's such a huge thing for me. I just consider money as like this tool. I treat it well and it treats me well. This is Better Well with Caleb Williams. The one and only Brad Hart, welcome to the Better Well podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Caleb. And I'm so grateful to be here. Thanks everybody for listening. I hope you get some real value from this today. I don't, for those of my audience that is listening or watching on YouTube and you're on Clubhouse, I'm just going to give a mini plug. Brad is probably one of the best club host, clubhouse host and facilitators that I've ever been able to be a part of, man. And that's why I'm so excited about this because you just genuinely have a heart to serve people. You love on people. You think differently, but you really get this whole idea of results. And so thank you, thank you for being on. I'm excited to talk about your book and just about what you're up to in the world. And I've been really blessed to have you as a friend this last year. Thank you, Caleb. And I'm so grateful to hear you say that. I mean, it's been a journey, man, learning all this stuff and then being able to kind of build frameworks around it and present it in a way and write it in a way where people really take value from it. So just it's been a long journey. And I'm so grateful to hear that you're like, oh, this is actually good, you know, because you put it out into the world. Do you never know? And you get your peers saying, hey, you know, these are people you respect and write, you know, similar books. And you're like, okay, I'm really honest, something here. So it gives you the will and the desire and the drive to take your Sunday or Saturday going record the audio book and find all the typos and update it and everything. So I'm really grateful for that. And yes, far as clubhouse, we do a clubhouse from every single week, typically one's days at five o'clock. Sometimes we have guests. Sometimes we just do free form. It's typically around investing topics. So if this is something that you'd like to join us with, we'd love to have you. And that's Pacific time, five o'clock Pacific time. So Brad, I want to know your story. I find a ton of value in understanding the context of why people do what they do. I know that you're in the masterminds. You're a big time entrepreneur. You're an investor. You aren't scared of crypto. Let's just put it that way. You and that with that, you also have written about life insurance. So it's like, you have a really weird, like you don't belong in a box, by the way. I don't know if anyone told you, but it's like everything that you thought to be true about this thing is like complete opposite. And so I want to get context and I want to dive into some of those subjects. Sure. Then I'll even geek out even harder on like 3D printing and exponential tech and all those crazy stuff. So like, I guess it all started for me, the investment side when I was about 16 years old, because we grew up very poor. You know, my dad was injured. He was a lumber truck driver. My mom worked at Dali. She had to leave to find better work to support us. So here I am, you know, the 16 year old kid. I'd never really known wealth. I'd always worked to have anything above what social security and disability can provide for us. And I realized that, you know, my grandfather, he was getting up there and he was a World War II veteran. So we were sorting out his affairs to get him to go into the nursing home, the VA nursing home. And, you know, we looked at the cost of the nursing home and realized, wow, you know, it's going to be pretty expensive. So we wanted to move any assets that he had into my dad's name early. Right? So I'm 16. My dad's maybe, you know, in his 50s at that point, my grandfather is almost 80 and we've made that transition and we all worked together to do that. And that's what opened my eyes to the fact that my grandfather was wealthy, not, you know, like a hundred millionaire or anything like that. But he had, you know, a couple million bucks to his name and there's all in stocks that my great uncle, his uncle had bought from the Great Depression era, which was like standard oil, bell telephone. And I still have those stocks had split and become different companies and there were buyouts and mergers and there was like 25 different companies just from standard oil and bell telephone plus a bunch of others he had. And they were all spread out over all these brokerages and it was like this Easter egg hunt. We had to like call around and figure out where all his money was and move it into my dad's name. And I thought that was really interesting that he could be so wealthy and we were so poor and that there was a difference between one generation, right? One person had made one decision back, you know, 100 years ago, whatever it was, 80 years ago, and it had changed, of course, his life. So all those stock paid dividends, he lived a good life and we didn't know he was wealthy was an ostentatious about it. We could buy things in cash and like everything was covered. So that was a big opening point for me. And it made me realize like, okay, this is a winable game. Like I don't have to struggle for money. I don't have to work for money necessarily as hard as you might think I can just invest. So that was one touch point and then when I was 24, my dad went on his way and unfortunately he didn't have the investing bug. He did the best he could given the education that he had, literacy and financial matters. But had he lived any longer, he got a back all those and when I was 24, he probably would have went broke like in three to four years. He was buying big cars and you know, kind of, you know, rolling all my cousins and doing stuff that just wasn't, you know, as much as it was helping people and it was come from his heart and I believe he was doing the right thing in his mind. He wasn't protecting and growing the wealth. So I took that upon myself when he passed, you know, I had already been a little bit successful as an entrepreneur, a little bit successful as a real estate agent. I was kind of on Wall Street for a while and so finding my way in the world. But I took it upon myself to really dive into these topics and learn for real what it takes to be successful entrepreneur, a successful investor. So long story short, I became a trader first. I learned about equities and options trading and I had some ups and downs, but I did pretty well with 3D printing stocks, especially early on. I had this opportunity to join a mastermind, we're a meta guy who, you know, all of a sudden I'm surrounded by like seven, eight, nine figure earners. It's expanding who I am. I'm like this 25 year old kid and I had this opportunity to write a column in Forbes magazine or Forbes online rather about 3D printing because I was geeking out. I was telling everybody I could about this stuff. He was like, hey, you want to write in Forbes about that? I'm like, sure. I didn't really understand what an opportunity that was at the time. So I did this article. I did the very best I could. He ended up rewriting it, making it better and we published it and I made a list of everybody out of contact that might be interested in sharing this article. And I went down the list and I p.m. and wrote almost like a plea. This is the only time I might ever get to do something like this in my life. I was really like laying it on thick. Could you please share it? That would mean the world to me. If you find value, I wouldn't please share it. And one of the people who found value in it and shared it was Tim Frick and Ferris. And I don't know if you know who that is, but he's the 800 pound gorilla of Silicon Valley investors tweeted about it like three of the morning and it just caught fire. Like 300,000 people read this article and it went nuts. And inadvertently I triggered like a huge buying thing in the stock and I wasn't planning on any of this. Like, you know, it just happened this way. So a ton of people bought the stock and they started going crazy like 10X in a matter of months. So now I have people coming to me and be like, Hey man, I read that article and these are friends of mine. They're like, I just paid for my wedding with that stock tip you gave me. I'm like, I didn't get you to stock tip. You know, right? Trying to be cool about it. They're like, what else you got? Do you want to manage some money? Like, what does that even look like? They're like, Oh, you know, give you some cash and you can manage it and just keep some of the return. I'm like, Okay, so I go and ask somebody else and they're like, Yeah, start a hedge fund. I'm like a hedge fund. What do I know about hedge funds? You know, I worked on Wall Street for a while, but I didn't really understand the ends and outsides. You know, you just, you made it sound really simple. It was like anybody could do it, right? You know, I'm like, I don't need a license. I was like, no, you see a third party administrator set it up in Delaware, set up the GP wherever you want. Reg D. Here's the SEC guidelines, blue sky laws. He just kind of laid it out for me and I'm like, I think I'm going to start a hedge fund. And I had no idea what that would take or what that would entail, but I knew how to hustle. So I just said, Hey, you know, who would be willing to give me money? You know, I can't do a one person. Certainly, but if I had a big enough group, I'll give a shot. And that's always been kind of how I do things. Like if there's enough people interested in something, I'll make it work. I'll figure it out. So I went and wrote a list like again, 200 people that I knew that might give me money. 17 of them said, yes, I got better and better in pitching. I ended up raising close to half a million bucks when we had a hedge fund. And I partnered up with my trading mentor at the time who also had a fund. So we would, you know, kind of share trades and figure things out together. And we went out and did it. And it was like 2012 when we launched 2013. We had a massive year, 106% return. You know, we're obviously bringing in more money as time went on. We had a million dollar a month in profits between the two funds, which is like a million 40,000 something like that, which is more money than I ever expected to make. But, you know, if I look back on that time of my life, now I have three rules for living my life, which I borrowed from one of my mentors, Dave Meltzer, which are help a lot of people have a lot of fun and make a lot of money. If I look back on that time of my life, I was living by rule three, but not really rule one and rule two. You know, we had a tremendous amount of abundance, but I wasn't having a lot of fun. I wasn't helping a lot of people except for the people who are already kind of rich. And, you know, we're willing to take a flyer on this. And then I realized, well, I had 106% year, but that doesn't mean I'm going to have a 106% year every year. And every investor I went to for serious money, you know, because I had a few million bucks, but it wasn't like 10 to millions or hundreds of millions. Everybody I'd went to to write me a big check. They would say, well, you know, what if you take a 50% drawdown? I'm not doing that, right? And I'm like, all right. So I decided to move away from that and focus then on, you know, what I realized about both the industry as I had had success in, which is real estate and finance, which is like the hungry, hungry hippos, right? You're like grabbing for all the marbles. There's only so much room, you know, in trading, there's a winner or a loser and a real estate deal is only so much room in the deal. So like, well, what if we could just make more marbles? And that's where my company name was born. And I was like, that's a pretty, you know, interesting idea. So I started a blog, right? You do what you do. You figure it out. And my goal was to reach a million people. And I didn't have an offer. I didn't understand marketing. I didn't understand any of this. But I had a chip on my shoulder. I thought, well, I'm a seasoned investor at this point, whatever that means, right? And I'm sure I can figure this out. And I just proceeded to fail at it for like three years. You know, before I finally got a little bit of traction, I'm understood who I was helping and what I was about. And I'll keep this, you know, short story long. But essentially, I landed on the idea that masterminds were going to be my niche. And I had been a part of like 30 of these masterminds. I joined ones that were free and invite only Rubin Alboz of like, you know, Richard Branson and Tim Ferriss and Neil Strauss and Sarah Blakely and all these really cool people. And I realized, well, I could run these. So I partnered up with the coach that I was dating at the time. We ran one and it was cool. And then we raised the price. And then we did other ones. And it just kind of formulated that way. And I realized other people wanted to learn how to run mastermind. So we launched our program to help people do that about three, four years ago. And that just exploded. So, you know, with Dean and Tony and all that stuff, doing mastermind.com and me being a big affiliate for them, I was the top affiliate. You're one top affiliate year two, number eight, out of 5,000 affiliates. You got to go and like spend time with Tony and getting coached by Tony Robbins for five hours in a small setting as studio out in Florida. It was pretty awesome, man. Like epic. Just realizing like, this is my calling. This is what I went to do. And that original goal, it's so funny how like you have no idea how to achieve it, which you put it out there and it kind of happens. It took us three years to reach a million people at first, right? That first three years is just figuring it out, writing it's on a content, figuring out what people wanted. We'd have some wins. We'd have some losses. We'd just figuring it out. And then with Tony and Dean's launch, we reached a million people in six weeks. And then the second year around, we really went big on it. We reached a million people in three days and 72 hours reached a million people. I was like, wow, this is pretty wild that we got this kind of impact. And we're not the biggest company. You know, I'm not looking for this to be the next Tony Robbins. But I really like helping people and I really like sharing what I've learned. And the investing piece has always been a huge part of that. So like any time I learn about a cool trick that people have with finances or something that wealthy people know and do that the average person does not, I want to not only understand it for myself, but then I want to teach it to other people because then I not only understand it better, but now it helps other people as well. And life insurance was one of those things where I just kind of, I ran into it one day kind of by accident. I was trying to pitch one of the original founders and clickfunnels who I met through a Dan Martell podcast and mastermind who, you know, wouldn't hire me because, you know, I had to know how I was doing probably at his level. Like he was working on captive insurance plans and all this crazy stuff I did not do. But he gave me a tip to check out a Garek Anderson, a wealth factory, which led me to read their book and, you know, the rest of history as they say. So I had a meeting with Mike over there and he's like, Hey, you're pretty sharp on the stuff. I'm like, Yeah, I ran a hedge fund. I kind of understand finance a little bit. I'm always learning though. He's like, we should get your license. You know, you'll learn a ton that way. I'll tell you what, I'll split the commission on your policy with you to get your license in the next 30 days. I'm like, Sure. And I went out and I, and you know, he didn't tell me that it usually takes people six months. I just didn't know any better. So I went out and I studied for three days and I passed the test. I got like a 77 and I got my license. So I go back a couple of weeks later. I'm like, Hey, man, I got my license. He's like, What? I'm like, I got my license. Like, where's my commission check? He's like, You know, I've like told 30 people to go do that and nobody's ever done it. I'm like, Well, Hey, you haven't met me yet, right? So, so it's just this kind of, it's like half. I don't know what I'm doing. And I'm going to figure it out. I'm like, I'm relatively self-assured and a self-star. I'm just kind of, you know, find the fastest path between A and B. I don't get up in my head about it. That led me to be successful. But eventually I did give me the commission and I ended up, you know, building relationships with you and all these really wonderful people. And what I'm learning about this industry is like, there's an issue with, there's people that don't know and they don't know what they don't know. They just don't understand how life insurance can be structured the right way for benefit. And then there's people who know that, but they don't share that with their clients because there's a commission incentive not to, right? Because if you structure a policy, a whole life, guaranteed cash, guaranteed level premium, guaranteed, you know, death benefit, and you do it the right way, there's not a hell of a lot of commission in that. It's just not a great way to make money. I mean, you could do it at volume, certainly, in its scale. But it's, it's not as sexy as selling like IULs and all these other things, which, you know, unfortunately, very risky and kind of move more towards a speculative investment product versus, you know, tried and true 200-year-old, you know, mainstay of American society that, you know, helps the wealthier get wealthier and the, you know, so on and so forth. Like the Rockefeller's, why do they get rich and rich every generation versus the Cornelius Vanderbilt family, which is shirtsleeves, the shirtsleeves and three generations? It's all about the structure. If you don't understand the structure and you have somebody who's either ignorant or lying to you, trying to advise you, that's a problem. So I've met hundreds of guys like you, Caleb and Mike and, you know, like all these folks. Like only you two are the people I actually want to work with because you actually tell me like it is, you know. Yeah. And you do the right thing by people. And I'm not saying there are other gems out there like you, but I haven't run into too many. So I kind of, anyway, I've been rambling for a while. So that's kind of how I got into it. That's why I'm excited about it and that's what I've learned so far. And I've invested in like premium finance and IULs and all these different things. And I keep coming back to tried and true whole life. Brad, where do I begin? Like thank you number one. That was probably one of the best intros. And thank you for giving context. I mean, we could talk about masterminds. We could talk about valuing yourself. I think number one, if people come to me and are making less than $100,000 and they want to know the best investment, a lot of times I'm just curious what your advice would be. It's like, maybe we should make more money because we live in a world of abundance. And what I love about masterminds is you're surrounding yourself with people that are like you're like the smallest guy in the room. And what happens is you expand your thinking. And so I also, I just want to highlight something about the life insurance side is the biggest problem that people face when they think of life insurance is they think of it as the or investment as the investments like why in the world would someone who's runs their own business does crypto does all these crazy things like by the way, you're not putting life insurance as to compete with any of your investments. It's more of a foundational asset. And I just, I think the way that you articulated that in your book was really powerful. And I want to talk a little bit about that. But if someone came to you and said, Brad, I want a wealth 101. Like, I don't want to talk about products because I don't talk about products. Let's talk about I'm here and I want to become wealthy. Where do I begin? Like what are the steps that I need to go through? And again, I'm not looking for products. I'm not looking for a tactic. I'm looking for like, how do you think in a framework? Yeah, I got from a framework from dead stop. Let's say I just got out of like, I just landed here from another country. Yeah. You know, and I'm an American now and I want to become an American. I want to understand American values. And I can only speak through the lens with which I view the world and American citizens. So I'll start there. Let's say I just landed and I'm here and I'm like, okay, I want to make a life for myself. Well, first I got to learn the language and invest in myself and hopefully build a community around myself. And that's really the first thing. And as you mentioned earlier, the fastest path to wealth is to increase your income. Right, because you just have bigger chunks to play with. You have more opportunities to diversify and invest in different things. So getting to that place where you're making that six figures plus is really important before you really start to invest heavily in other assets. And then, you know, I would pile down that, you know, that life insurance first, right? Because that's the end asset as you put in your book where you can have money working there and that policy and you can have money working in other places. So it's not precluding you from investing in other things. It's allowing you and then powering you to invest in other things in a safe way. So that's awesome. And that also helps protect your family if you have one, you know, cash in the bank is a great idea too, just having enough income to support, having enough money to like most of the country, unfortunately, I think I read some crazy statistic like more than half of the country can't write a $500 check in an emergency that won't bounce. That's absurd. Like there's so much wealth and abundance out there and it's all trickling up, you know, and people say, oh, we should redistribute it. But that's not how it works, right? There's got to be incentive for people to create. And if you redistributed it, it would all end up in the same hands again because it's about how people add value in exchange, not about how people get, life isn't fair. It's just structured along the way that human nature is, right? So you just have to kind of roll with it. And if you want to have this skewed view of reality, you're going to have a skewed result as a function of that. So it's getting your mindset, right? It's understanding that you're in this global competitive environment, but there's also like a loving benevolent side when you're on track and you're helping and you're going out to help people. Life supports that, which supports life. So things come to you as a result of you just wanting to do the right thing that don't come to other people who don't, in my opinion. And I've seen that happen time and time again. When people set out without the right intention, and they have challenge after challenge after challenge, people set out with the right intention. They still get challenges because they still have to grow, but they also get giant wins and lucky strikes that just show up for them because they're ready, they're prepared, and they're doing it for a bigger reason than themselves. One of the things that Sarah Blakely told me when we got to master my with her and people would want to contest. So basically, it was our mastermind group, her team, Buckhead and 10 local entrepreneurs that won this contest that were mentoring. She said something that hit me right between the eyes. It was like, if you want to make 75 grand, just focus on yourself. If you want to make like 150 to 200 grand, focus on yourself and your family. If you want to make half a million, focus on you, your family, and your community. But if you want to make millions or billions, you got to have a vision that encompasses the needs, wants some desires of that many people. And it doesn't have to be like rocket surgery, right? She sells fucking pantyhose, where she cut the fetal. She sells. And she's made a billion dollar empire. She's self made. And she's the sweetest, most caring person. She gives a lot of money charity and she married to Jesse Hitzler. So she's just crazy lifestyle and kids and all this nuttiness. But she has a vision that encompasses the needs and wants some desires of more than just her herself. Like, she's willing to help people that she's never even met. And it helped her too, right? But if you focus on you, what you want, your fears and your limitations and your lack and your, you know, whatever, then you're never going to get there. You're only going to have a concentric circle of influence that that shadows you versus it could be the entire world. Right. I love what you just said and I really appreciate you articulating that. I you mentioned value a couple times. And this is probably the biggest disconnect. The biggest disconnect is around value creation and around our view of leverage. We have such a many people have a negative view of leverage because they think of like credit card debt. I want you to touch on that like your definition of leverage. But then I also want you to talk about value and value creation because I really think if I could summarize wealth, it's a combination of those two things combined together. And if you can get those two things right, if you in your framework, like in your mind, if you can understand those two things, I mean, Neval talks a lot about this. And it was like, I'm rereading his book and I'm just like, wow, this is so good. Yeah. So simple. It doesn't take a genius to make things more complex. Things are naturally complex. The world is a very complex place. A genius makes things simple and easy to attach a framework to through which you can view the world. And when you view it through that lens, it's like very clear what you need to do next. So when I think of value in a human sense, right, value might be different for different places in the universe, different species. I don't know. We're not there yet. But for human sense, it's like, how can you solve our problems? And our problems tend to add up to three things, right? It's our health. It's our wealth and it's our relationships. So if you can help somebody become healthier, wealthier, have better relationships with themselves, their kids, their family, their, your, your lovers, whatever it is, right? That is added value. And there's certainly other things that kind of, you know, fall around the perimeter. But let's just focus on one of those three things. You can create a product. You can create a service. You can create any means of anything. And you start out with just a group of people. You're a little, you know, test group, right? You're pilot group. You're beta group and you just do it for them. Or you do it for one person, right? But if you can get it right for one person and you can have them have a complete experience start to finish where they have received value from your product or service, you can do that for a thousand people. It's just about the engine you choose. So choosing the right vehicle is also important. And you have to consider risks, right? Like inventory and overhead and, you know, debt, like you mentioned, you know, you can go for a bigger engine, but it's probably require bigger capital to build that. And it's probably going to require more expertise and a better team to build that. So I recommend masterminds for an example because it doesn't take a lot of inventory. It doesn't take a lot of overhead. You don't have to be the expert, right? You're essentially a merchant, a facilitator for people who need things and want to learn things and people who know things and have experience and things. So you can put a mastermind on and I'll just share a quick example of this. You know, I met a guy back when I was learning about Amazon who was making $100,000 a month selling cat tunnels on Amazon. A chalton pepper shaker. He's like random stuff and like, dude, show me your way. So yeah, work five hours a week. You know, I live on my boat in Seattle and travel and I play with my powered power glider and I run this business that makes a million to a year from my whole family. So it pays for everything and it's like five hours a week. I'm like, this is insane. Teach me what you know. He's like, yeah, sure, I'll coach you. It's $30,000. I was like, okay, 30 grand. I could do it. However, do you have other people who want to learn this from you? He says, yeah, I said to the all 30 grand. He says, no, it's a great. I'm going to build a mastermind around you. You're going to make more money. You're going to help more people and we have more fun doing it. He's like, okay. I'm in. So within two weeks, we had $35,000 raised. We ended up bringing 52 people to China and Hong Kong. We had a blast and I learned a ton about it. But what was more important is like, it wasn't just about me. They asked better questions than I did. The people who came along, they took better notes than I did. We thought about different business models around it, not just sourcing products. I ended up going with launching a marketing agency for people who want to grow their business on Amazon, which we took from zero to 75k, which we were recurring a month inside of six months. And I ended up selling my share on that and moving back to doing what I love, which is building masterminds and teaching other people how to do it. So if I had just either said no, I can't afford it or I'd said, hey, I'm just going to hire you and learn from my own. I'm sure I would have had a good experience learning, but I may never have gone on the path that I did and I may never have realized that there's so much power on this model. So versus books and courses and events and all the other things you can do. There's a ton of risks and overhead in that. You can build a mastermind right now today and get started on that. So that's where I think about adding values. Like what are the problems that people have? Can you niche down and create an outcome that people want, work with a small group, and then refine it and then go scale it and then decide to build other things that require more risk, more overhead, more expertise. What have you? Because now you have cash flow and you have real value and customer base that you can build for. That's a foundation. You're known as the mastermind guy and work out of abundance there. When what is your core business? Do people come to you and say, hey, I want to create a mastermind around my business. I want to create a mastermind around this thing. How do you work with people? Because what you just said is brilliant. It's honestly podcasting on steroids. I recommend people who don't know where to start. Start a podcast. That creates leverage. You can invite other people on, play the long game and build relationships. I feel like a mastermind is like that model, pour the gasoline on and make money because you're going to be able to learn from the best in the world, man. What could be better than that? It's insane. I came away with money in my pocket, a free trip, a business model that I had no idea existed with partners ready to go and we blew it up in no time. It was insane. I would have never done any of that if it wasn't for the mastermind. Then they were all benefiting as well. We probably created $100 million worth of value. Again, when the vision is big enough, a lot of things can happen. I just want to highlight one thing. You wanted to learn this thing that was super valuable. You could have paid $30,000 in a vacuum. You could have made that work. If we're doing an investment, let's just assume or suppose for the moment that you get your money back. It's all great. You built more relationships. You probably had way more authority and served the person that was teaching you more. He was better off. You had other people. You got that trip was paid for. You made more money. You built more relationships, more leverage, more value. Just going back to the Sarah quote, you didn't necessarily in that interaction impact billions, but you took your value from one potentially to multiple. I just, again, this is not some magical wand that just it's it. It's I'm not saying it's easy, right? Obviously, I had a lot of conversations and hustle and it was a lot of work, but it was work I loved because I was helping people. It was an opportunity I was creating for people and they were thrilled. I still get notes about, oh man, we have inside jokes about the trip and people still love it. Chris, who you might have met, Chris Rossiter, we ended up going to frickin' cow. We bought suits that were custom made in Hong Kong. We go to Macau and it was not a fun trip. It wasn't like it was in the James Bond movies, but it was so fun just to do something like that with somebody and become a lifelong friend. I met another guy who was in ABCL for like 20 years and I've been up to his house now and we're going to go to Alaska. He's bought a frickin' 40 acre plot in Alaska. We're going to go to his sit. So, like, you know, you just create relationships that you just never know where they're going to go and what's going to continue to build from that. And I think you asked me a question about value and leverage and debt. So that's one way you can add value, right? There's a lot of models, but that's the one I love the most. Of all the things I've done, I've done a lot of things. That's the one I love the most. When you think about leverage, there's good debt and there's bad debt. Just like there's, you know, you can put rocket fuel in a rocket and you can point it at the sky and the leverage of the rocket fuel will send it into the atmosphere or you can do that and send it into the ground, right? And when you have your model figured out on a small scale, typically you can leverage up and get more leverage and take on that and that's good debt because you're receiving more than you're putting out and you're able to service and grow your business. That's economics, right? But if you're not able to do that or don't have a figured out or you're wasting the money on nonsense that isn't adding value or creating an asset and you're going to be driving that rocket into the ground and that's where people fall into problems. So I disagree with a lot of what Dave Ramsey says, except for one thing, which is, you know, I don't believe that debt is evil. I believe that debt is a tool and just like any tool to hammer, right? Let's say you can fill the house with a hammer. You can fix things around the cottage here or you can cave somebody's skull in with it. Who's building the hammer? What's their intention? What are they going to do with that hammer? So, you know, tools are not in themselves evil. Human beings on the other hands can be good and evil if they decide to be. This is interesting. Being in debt versus using debt. Being in debt is your liabilities, i.e. the things that you owe are greater than your assets. So using debt is if everything got liquidated, you would have a positive number and I think there's a big difference. I think Dave Ramsey is a very effective communicator and he's speaking to people that are in debt and they're the type of people that are continuing to get deeper in debt. It's that I love that analogy. I'm going to use it where it's like that rocket. I'm pointing it at the ground. So I think a lot of times what happens is communication just like it just goes over people's head because over here we're like, hey, that can be an amazing tool. You can actually have more control. You can be more safe. When I look at buying a house, I would get stressed out. I would get stressed out paying cash for the house because I feel like you're way more at risk. You're losing control and so many things can go wrong. Whereas the same person on the Dave Ramsey side is the same thing. Freaking out and only would feel comfortable paying cash. There's obviously a language barrier there. And that opens you up to other risks. Let's say that person gets in an accident. Now they're coming after your house and all that equity. Right. There's wealthy people I've met. They have a debt shield. They keep debt on their house even though they can afford to paying cash because they don't want anybody to come after their house. The first thing a lawyer is going to look at is there enough equity in this house for me to make this worth my while or am I not going to bother soon for this asset. And I can use another example. So we just bought a house. And I'll give real numbers because why not? We were living in a five bedroom three bath house in California. Overlooking the ocean is beautiful. We've been there for the last four years paying 5,100 a month. Plus utilities come out to about 6 grand. We just moved to Phoenix. We got the same size house brand new just built in December for 490,000. And we're paying 2,200 a month. And then with our expenses probably around 3 grand. So we basically cut our bills in half. We're going to save on taxes. Yeah, it's a little hotter here. But we can leave in the summer and have the same net effect and spend three months of our lives traveling if we want to and not pay a different more. And then I have an additional 3 grand of net income that I can invest or do whatever I want to do with or just keep. And then you think about it from that perspective, like, that is a great thing. Like I got 5% down on this house and 2.5% interest. It's stupid. And with money being printed the way it is, money is decreasing in value by 6, 7%. By the time I pay this house off, the money I paid for it versus the real dollars notionally now that I'm saving and I can invest elsewhere versus the notional dollars I'm going to pay it off later. It doesn't even make sense to pay it off. Like I'm actually getting paid to live here. Yeah, crazy. Brad, you were one of the guys when I met you. I was like, you have to go through our process and the importance of cash flow, the importance of modeling cash flow. And what was really cool is number one, you're one of the most clear. You're super clear in what you want. And it's just like, I want people to know that because a lot of times people want a tactic. But it's like if it doesn't come from sincere clarity, we're wasting our time. But number two, you live your life off of it. Like you get the whole cash flow game. And so I want you to speak to that and then I want to dive into your book. It's so fun talking to you. Like, can we have a weekly show? I love it. Yeah, that would be a lot of fun. We could do podcasts, we could do clubhouse or whatever you want. So yeah, the idea for me is I want to respect and treat money the way it deserves to be respected with respect because I see it as a tool to create an abundant life. And abundance, you know, again, health, wealth, relationships, I'm not just speaking about toys. Like I don't have toys. I don't care. I write a $3,000-dollar-beater motorcycle and I borrow my girlfriend's car when I need a car. I don't buy stuff for myself, even though I can afford it because my goal is not to spend a dollar now. It's to make that dollar become 10, 20, 50, $100. So I think about every purchase I make, that's more than, you know, I don't make myself crazy. Like obviously I eat and I do things and I go to places. But you know, when I think about like a purchase that's above what I would normally spend or a giant purchase, I'm like, well, it's a dollar now, but is it really a dollar or is it $20 or is it $50? I talk a lot about this in my book. Yeah. But such a huge thing for me, I just consider money as like this tool. I treat it well and it treats me well. And therefore like I know people that make five times, a hundred times what I make and they're broke. And what's the point of making all that money if you don't end up with anything at the end of the day? So my goal, I actually read a really great book recently, reread, called The Ultimate Business Blueprint by Keith Cunningham. Yeah. And he makes a point in that book where it's like if you have a business that has a 10% profit margin to have the same net effect of growing the business from a profit perspective or a cash on cash perspective, you either have to grow it by 25% on revenue with all the costs and time and energy and money that's going to incur or you can just lower your expenses by 3.5%. It's the same net effect. But everybody's like writing off all their trips and doing stuff they wouldn't have done because it's on the business and taking people out to lunches and dinners because you don't need to do any of that. It's all nonsense. It's all nonsense and things that will drive return. On the other hand, I just bought a spot on a podcast that's very well known for $3,500 bucks and it's already generated a positive ROI and we did it this month. And it'll generate a positive ROI probably in the next three months. And I'll do it again next year because I know where to take a shot and I know where to not. And that's really just practice and experience. Brad, I would love to know your Kobe. Do you know your Kobe test? I've done it. I can't remember what it is. You was one of the things. Yeah. You and I are so similar to that. I'll drop money on people, investments. Totally. Masterminds, all two. It's not even hard for a mastermind. Right. But going out to dinner and like, and again, maybe you're probably a little bit like, I think you might be a little more advanced in me. But I just like, it just bothers me. It's not that I'm cheap. It's just like this $10 that I'm spending extra on whatever. It's okay. But I literally disrespected the value that that tool could give me and the multiple people there. It's extreme. I promise you guys, I'm not miserable. I just, I just get it. Yeah. And once you open your eyes to the power of money, like my great grandfather, my great uncle and my grandfather did for me, I saw the power of what it could be in one generation. And by the way, it's moving way faster now in our lifetimes and it ever moved for them. Yeah. And I've been doing this for 80 years for that outcome. I'm seeing that in two years, five years, 10 years here, you know, in this day and age, it's crazy how fast things are moving. Like my girlfriend was like, I told her to put some money into a specific crypto, like a couple hundred bucks, not a lot of money. But she made a 30% return in three weeks. She's like, oh, I didn't really do that. Well, I'm like, what are you talking about? I mean, people would be thrilled to get a 30% return in the stock market. You know, they'd be in head over heels. And like, I remember the year I got a hundred and six percent return. I was with dude at a party. He was like, I made 30% this year. I'm like, that's cool, bro. You know, and he was like so chuffed and thrilled after he just lost his ass a few years back in the 2008 crash. I'm sure, you know, half his money. By the way, if you lose half your money, you got to make a hundred percent return just to break even. Anyway, I could go on and on, man. But yeah, that's how I think about it. And I just want to help other people do it. Let's talk about crypto. Let's talk about the market. No one can do like everyone's making money. No one's losing. Everyone's on fire. And I'm not opposed. I'm. I'm. Everyone is a gene. Full market. Everyone's killing it. I'm just wondering what you see for the future. I mean, I know that you're big into Bitcoin. I would love for you to explain your philosophy there. But then also like, what are you? What are you seeing? What do you have any predictions in the next two, three years? Yeah. So I'll start off with I don't have a crystal ball, just like anybody else. However, I believe cryptocurrency is really important in flexion point. And more importantly, what's underlying it, which is blockchain, has a lot of implications for a lot of different things. I mean, we're talking like trading real estate, like a stock 24, seven and fractional real estate ownership. We're talking, you know, how we store data, how we do cryptography, how we do privacy, how we do money exchange. This is so many different pieces that this affects. And all of these tokenized systems that are coming out, like I'm going to take a flyer on almost all of them. And a flyer for me is like 500 or $1,000, sometimes a little more. But the way I was introduced to all this in the beginning was actually kind of round about. And so that's the story. So back in 2008, we were making apps for the app store. And back then, you could basically write a long essay and have somebody code it into an app and sell it for two bucks. And you would make a few grand a month. It was great. And so I was making money. I thought I was a genius, you know, making checks from everywhere in the world, getting money from Singapore and Malaysia and all these different places that people were buying my little app. I'm like, this is so cool. So the app guy comes to me with his idea, the kid who's developing the app and he's like, hey, I want to build a Bitcoin trading app. But I need $5,000 to do it. I'm like, what the hell is Bitcoin? But I look it up. I read the white paper. I'm like, this sounds cool, right? They've solved this Byzantine general's problem, which has been plaguing humanity for however long, right? It's funny. If you really want to see what's coming, find the solutions to mathematical problems that physicists and mathematicians have been able to solve. If you can find a solution, that's probably valuable because they've been tinkering on it for a long time for a reason. Anyway, that's an aside. But I give them money. He's trying to be coin based on $5,000. It's not great. He just didn't have the chops or the budget. He didn't understand what he's trying to do. But I just taken that $5,000 and put them into $5 cent bitcoins at the time of the deal. I'd be a multi-billionaire. So there's your first lesson, kids. It's investing the underlying no matter what. But it goes against the people in the gold rush who made the money. Was it the... Yeah, yeah. Well, in that situation, certainly. You just had no idea. But if I would just put $1,000 in, I'd be super happy, right? I know. Wow. Yeah, it was nuts. I did get a little bit. I ended up losing some. I still have a bunch. I ended up buying under a hundred bucks. I still have now. And I just... I always try to buy things with the intention of never selling them or selling them in like a decade. Like, I want to be in it forever. Because when I trade it for a living, it was very stressful. And now it's like, well, I know I can get wealthy faster by just focusing on earning more. What's the utility of me trading in and out and being stressed all the time? Well, I don't do that. So I've been able to go through all these ups and downs and see Bitcoin go to $20,000 and back to three and buy some more. And then see it go to $60,000 and now wherever it ends up, right? So I don't know. Price predictions, I could go really high. I just think of it like, if you zoom out and you think about all the money in the world, right? Nobody does this. But I, again, I'm a nerd. So I tried to pin the number. Like if you took all the stocks and real estate and gold and assets and everything and all of the markets all over the world and liquidated them tomorrow, if that was possible, how much money would that be? And I landed on a number somewhere between $1.5 and $2 quadrillion. And a quadrillion would be a thousand trillions or a million billions, right? It's a lot of money, right? And I thought about it. I'm like, okay, so if that's the number, two quadrillion and the whole market cap of crypto is two trillion. So two thousand trillion versus two trillion. Would it be possible in our lifetime for crypto to become one percent of all money? Just one percent. Like I think that's pretty likely actually, right? I think that's a reasonable outcome. And especially in 10 to 30 years, I think that's totally possible. Right now it's 0.1%. So that's a 10 X from here. So if you look at Bitcoin's price, that's $600,000, $500,000. So I think that's possible. I just don't know how long it'll take and how many cycles. And it just comes down to like, there's existential threats potentially to Bitcoin, like quantum computing and government regulation that could step in and create a problem. So those are the risks. The reward is potentially there. I'm in. I'm not moving. So that's my take is like, hey, I've already wrote it at this point at the point. You know, we're I've taken my principal out and it's cool. Like let's rock, you know, Cowboys till the end. I'm on the guy with the cowboy hat on the on the missile, like dropping to the earth. Was that the real question is, did you did you jump on the GME bang way? No, that was too scary for me. I tried to buy the puts and I couldn't. There were two expensive. Right. They want a $90 for a weekly put. And I'm like, no way guys, come on. This is nuts. It was a free for all. But the the whole takeaway from that situation is like, you know, boohoo. I'm sorry. Were the wrong people manipulating the stock market? You know, they're shutting this thing down and they're calling for regulation. They're calling for reform and all this nonsense. I'm like, this is just what Wall Street does, man. Every day. I've been on the other side of Goldman when I, when I, when they've sold me a bunch of calls and they start moving the market against me just so they can make their money back because I don't want to end the day half a million dollars in debt. It's like, dude, I get how they work, you know, and I, I think they deserve a taste of their own medicine. If you're going to take the risk, you're going to play the game. You can't cry when it doesn't go out. You know, the way you want. So I'm just going to throw this out there. Brad doesn't know this. If you're, if you're listening to this and saying, I want to learn more about crypto. You want to do a crypto mastermind, hit me up. I might just, I might just throw a Brad Hart style and we might have to do a mastermind in your, in your criminal Arizona, man. Maybe Brad will even show up. Yeah. So just reach out to me. Comment below if you're interested. I, I get no agenda. I love crypto. I think it's awesome. I think it's the future. Are there a lot of ups and downs and to platter in the, yeah, absolutely. But, you know, I think the tried and true ones are already kind of known, right? You have Bitcoin and Ethereum and a few others. I don't really make recommendations beyond that. All like, because, you know, I, I don't feel like it's, I place to do that. It's my place to just say, Hey, yeah, educate yourself. And if you want to do that, you can check out my crypto cheat sheet. It's at marbles.link slash crypto. Or you check out my book. I talk about it a lot in there. You want to, you want to plug the book real fast? Tell people about the book. It's right here. Where can people get the book? This is the eight minute money manager. So this is all the stuff I know about money and how I think about it. If you want to learn more, highly recommend it. It's very simple to read. I just finished doing all the edits and typos and like, I'm a bull in a china shop. When it comes to writing, like, I write it, I edit it. I put it out in the world and then I find all the typos and I fix it. Now I'm redoing the audio book. So all that's common. You can go to eight minute money manager. It's probably either way eight or eight spelled out.com and grab that. And we really love for you to be a part of this community that we're building of people who want to take control of their financial lives and grow for the long term. Because, you know, any, any idiot can make some money, right? Anybody can make some money. I mean, that's like as human as breathing in my opinion, keep and grow and invest and create a legacy. Like that's, that takes some doing. That takes some work. So if you want to do it and if it's big enough, why? You know, and it's more than just you and you want to make an impact and I'm your hook up very well. And I want to ask you a few questions. I know we got to go soon. And I'm really grateful that you wrote this. One thing that I am just, I'm just amazed by you is you act so fastly. Like we'll be on a meeting and I'll say like, Hey, like can you do something and like, you'll do it like right then and there. You did. Was that, were you born with that or did you, do you have like an epiphany that's just like, I'm not going to procrastinate on anything in life because I just, do you procrastinate on anything? Uh, yeah. I would say I do anything like that where it's like somebody needs something. I had a mentor named Neil Strauss. I've drawn his mastermind. He said something that kind of hit me again. It was like, or you, it might be not a big deal, but for them, it could be everything. So treat every promise you make, you know, like, like gold. Like it's the, it's your, it's your word, your bond, your gold, you're going to do it right then and there. You're not going to let it linger because if you, and I don't like to try to remember stuff. So I just want to do it right then, especially if it's simple. So I either do it or I calendar it right then. At it. So it's in the, in the calendar. Uh, the other thing I do is I try to promise 90% less and deliver 110% on everything. That's, I call it my 200% rule, even though the math is wonky. I like it. I don't know if the math adds up, but I like it. All right. So you talk about five buckets in your book, cash, life insurance, portfolio assets, debt instruments and high risk, high reward. Touch on that real quick. Yeah. So essentially, you know, you can grab the book and it'll let us all out for you in detail. But I recommend filling your portfolios from low risk to high risk, like an ice cube tray. Right. So you fill up one and then you fill up the next, you fill up the next one and so forth. And you start with passive stuff and you work towards active stuff because time is a function that people don't understand. Like they say, oh, real estate is the greatest investment. I'm like, you don't much time. It takes a good at finding and sourcing real estate deals. Yeah. It's a full time for a job. And it's not a bad asset class. I'm not beating it up. I'm just saying like, you should have cash in the bank. You have your old license insurance. You should have portfolio assets, which you don't have to think about more than once every six months. First before you even think about going into real estate. Um, so that's kind of what I talk about. Um, and then the fourth bucket is like debt and real estate. That makes sense. You know, you can start to go more active finding deals and working that out and building, bringing some cash flow in your portfolio because that's a huge part of wealth is, is having passive cash flow. But you have to work to get it, right? It's not completely passive. It's active until you get to where it is passive. And then finally, the high risk bucket. Like once you have your kind of low risk passive mid risk type of stuff done, then you can go crazy and invest in crypto and, and companies and, and whatever else you want to do. You know, you want to do startups. Great. But you have your, your basis to fall back on. So if you take a giant 90% hit in your crypto portfolio, you're not freaking out and trying to sell your house to survive, right? The, uh, Navale that she talks about this. And I, I wish more and more people would, would say this. It's, he said we in society aren't, we don't love to like bleed every day. And then go for big and he's talking about investing in. He's, so he's like saying, a lot of people are tying up money. And if you look at the risk versus reward, they're taking pretty big risk for the kind of upside. But he's like, why, why wouldn't we? And this is kind of my view to money. Get your foundation built and then take small losses every day, meaning like you might miss out on some money upside in the market, whatever. But when you do invest, go bigger, go home. And I'm just, it's just interesting to me, like all the people that I've learned from, like they've invested in businesses or people or opportunities. And they've usually had money when people didn't have that opportunity. That's right. Well, and, and it's like, it's discipline, right? Cause now there's a million deals out there. Like I'm getting hit up left and right for a cool deal every week. And it's like build a mastermind on me and do this house and Hawaii and, yeah. Invest in this company. And I'm like, no, I think I'm just going to plow my money into my life insurance policy. And it'll be there when I want to like go big when the market dips and you all are like freaking out and losing your shirt. I'm going to be out there buying it all. Yeah. Right. Cause everything's frothy right now. Why would I pay retail and I can wait and pay wholesale? Do you think there's going to be some opportunities in next year? Oh, yeah. I mean, we've been going on a bull market for so long. Well, I just, I just see a bunch of commercial real estate lease, lease, lease. And I'm like, I'm wondering like, am I the only one that potentially sees a commercial real estate bubble? I don't know. I don't, don't, don't sue me. I know financial advice here. Sure. I'm just, it's hard to say, man. Like everybody's trying to figure it out. I just, I pay attention to people who understand cycles and really pay attention. That's like, Ray Dalio is a huge influence in my life as far as the way I think about it. If you read his book about that instruments and debt and the debt cycles and houses all work, he breaks it down from like ancient Greece to ancient Rome all the way through till like, you know, this century. Um, it's the same cycle all the time. We're kind of in that peak top-e part of the cycle where credit's about to implode and all the asset classes that people are buying on leverage are going to implode as a result of that because there's no buying pressure, right? When there's no buying pressure, the prices have to fall. And if there's no credit, then how can you keep bidding it up unless people have cash? I can't afford it. Yep. Um, Robert Kiyosaki talks about assets are things that put money back in your pocket and liabilities are the things that ultimately put take money away from you and sink them into something else. What's your definition of an asset and a liability? Yeah, I love that, that definition. Um, it makes a lot of sense. And his book, Rich Apport ad, you know, I don't think it's the best finance book out there, but it's a great allegorical tale, right? It really gives you a sense of like, oh, there's another way I can live my life. And that was the one, man. That was the one that got me really going on this. Um, so yeah, my, my opinion is, is that's a really good definition. Uh, the only thing I might add to it is, uh, you have to decide who you are and what you want. So many people that I meet just don't know what the hell they want. They're not clear. And when you're clear on what you want, it's actually pretty simple to get the outcome. It did it. Like if you just know who you are, what you want, that's the trick, man, that's the hard part. It might take you a decade or more to figure that out. My, my definition of an asset is that thing that will help you live more intentional. Yeah, like, yeah, like that. That's, that's solid because you take it out of the realm of just money because money is just one type of currency. It's right. You know, there's influence. There's, you know, there's, there's relationships, there's health. There's always different things you can spend in different ways. It's interesting because what is the metric that matters? My, my opinion is it's the thing that you want. We call this R.O.R. Return on result. If you get clear on that, then spend your time money on the thing that gets you there. It's like red. This is not complicated, but yet, yeah, if you people get it, uh, last, last money question, you talk about building a money machine. Uh, I just think that, that wording is really, uh, drawing like people are drawn in. Like, I want a money machine. What do you mean by that? Yeah. So I mean, um, a portfolio, so the eight minute money manager, just to break down the title, means it takes about eight minutes a day over the course of a month, which is about an hour, week or four hours a month to manage all this. So you have this machine, which requires some maintenance. It's not completely free willing, but as you build it, you can just focus on auditing, triaging, optimizing and maximizing. So what is an audit? An audit is just what is, right? What, what is clear? It's all on spreadsheet. I know what it is. I know exactly what I have, what I, what my assets, what my liabilities, what my cashflow, all of its on spreadsheet. Then I'm going to triage and look through where am I deficient? You know, like a lot of people don't know about life insurance and that's a whole in their bucket. Cool. So I'm going to tackle those things first and get those deficiencies out of the way. Then I'm going to optimize. I'm going to really like get this thing cranking and, and to the place where it's awesome. And then I'm going to focus on maximization, which is putting as much fuel through the engine as possible, which will create a better result. So it's a machine essentially takes a dollar and makes it into 10, 20, 50, $100 with as minimal maintenance as possible by focusing on low risk, passive, moving up to mid-risk and then high-risk active. I love it, man. So many more things, but the way I love to end my, my podcast or what I call the legacy question, which for you is not putting on a different hat because I feel like you constantly make decisions from this mindset. But if this was your last day on earth and you were with the people that you loved the most and you couldn't give them anything, you can give them any videos, you couldn't give them any of your books, but you only had one last conversation. What would you focus on in that last conversation? Be unapologetically you. This is what I tell them. It'd be unapologetically you and just continue to double down on, on being the best version yourself and that will light up the world in the way that you're meant to do it. Like we're all here to do something or be something or create something that the world needs and it's whether we decide to go all in on that and face our fears and grow into the person who can create that or not that determines the outcome of our life. Like we all have this beautiful story inside of us that unfolds as we grow and it's not easy. It's not meant to be easy. Life is meant to test you and show you what you're made of. And when you can overcome that, you can create more than you ever imagined because it's not just you creating, you know, like you can talk about God, the universe, the flying spaghetti monster, whatever, but whoever created all this or whatever created all this, this force of love that surrounds us all wants you to grow, wants you to contribute, doesn't want you to play small. As soon as you get that, like any time I've ever played full out and left everything on the field, I've always surprised myself without far off as we've gone every time. Whenever I kind of get my toe in, it doesn't work. I got to go all in or nothing. So that's what my recommendation would be. Go all in. Guys, the eight minute money manager, get the book, you know, you know my stance when I bring on authors, Brad, it takes a lot of time and energy to put something out in the world. Thank you. And if everyone is single person listening, this got your book, took the time to read it and gave you an honest review. The world would be a much better place. So thank you for that. How can people get connected with what you're up to? And if you're watching this on YouTube, comment below and in the in the description, you can get a link to Brad's book. And also if you're listening to this on podcast, look in the description, go get his book. 100%. So if you're into masterminds, it's eight minute mastermind.com. If you're into money, eight minute money machine, eight minute money manager. I'm sorry. I was going to call it money machine and what would manage. And then I'm on social facebook.com slash Brad Hart, Cloud House Brad Hart, big cloud is the new one, which you got to get on. By the way, I'm still I look at your profile. I try to find it on on there every once in a while. Listen on what explain big cloud and in in So it could be a total scam. So I'm not recommending it. I'm just going to go with that. But it's an interesting idea. And I think something like that will win. I just don't know if it's that or not. But essentially it's a crypto backed blockchain based social network where you can invest in the creators on the platform. And it's been fun. It's been interesting. I don't know. I did. I did. I did email the support and I can tell you that later. I just here's here's the quick public announcement for all of my listeners. When it comes to crypto, don't take my advice. I'm right there with you. So let's just say I made I made some mistakes logging in or signing up for an account that's pretty much locked me out. But they have a second cell phone. So, um, Hey, man, thank you. Thank you so much. I'm excited to see what what the future holds. And I'm just so grateful that you're in my life. And thank you for showing up so powerfully and articulating so clearly. Thank you, Caleb. And thank you everybody for listening. I hope you got value out of this and feel free to chat if you have questions. Take care. Thank you so much. 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