Velocity & Infinite Banking Masterclass

 Hey guys, I just wanted to jump in here as this may be the longest podcast that I've ever done to date with Denzel Rodriguez And we talked about a lot of things we talked about a story we talked about velocity banking We talked about infinite banking We talked about some of the misconceptions of infinite banking and even at the end of the podcast You'll see where him and I disagree on some things and we and we really do it in a nice way But I feel like your IQ will increase by just hearing the different Versions different ways of speaking and so the reason I want to share this is we on our YouTube channel are gonna kind of split some of these Into shorter elements like velocity banking and what he's talking about leverage what he's talking about infinite banking Should you run your expenses through your infinite banking policy? We'll chop that up so it's easier to consume And I was thinking like should we put this long podcast and long form Interview up and the answer is yes because some of you guys will want to watch the whole thing and some of you guys We'll just wait to see the shorter videos with that. I wanted to just thank you so much for all the amazing comments and Questions and support that we've gotten we're continuing to make videos on personal finance on insurance on You know business to help you live more intentionally and we're just super super grateful for you giving us the support to be able to do that The Man the myth the legend himself Denzel Rodriguez Welcome to the show dude. I'm glad you're on. I'm glad we're making this work And I'm I'm so honored to have you on my YouTube channel and podcast There is an honor and a privilege to have had the opportunity to actually meet you in person So that was pretty cool and now we're collaborating for the first time. So it's it's an awesome awesome experience being able to work with you in this collaboration and I really look forward to future partnerships down the road, so I'm happy to be here man. I got a lot of energy going so Fire away between you and me where we're open books and we'll go anywhere I just want to tee this up. You're very much I mean you had over 40,000 subs on on YouTube you talk about velocity banking you talk about infinite banking you talk about Kingdom building talk about all kinds of stuff and you what I love about your style is you just I feel like you just turn on the camera you know, right, let me start talking and You're you don't hold anything back and you're very authentic and honest I just appreciate that about you And so before we jump into infinite banking why life insurance? What what is velocity banking that that's something I would love to articulate or for you to articulate to to our audience I want to first ask you What was some of the key elements in your life that made you be the person that you are today? And you know this YouTube channel didn't happen on accident you put a lot of time and energy into it What made you be the kind of person that want to turn on the camera and talk about money and just be honest about your faith and all That so I'm kind of teeing up the the floor for you to take this wherever you want it But want to give our audience context before we get into the nitty-gritty. I would say some key details that key experiences I had just going back to the start of the YouTube channel started in August ish of 2018 I Started recording videos on my commute to and from work At the top of the year beginning of 2018 prior to that Go back four more years. I graduate high school 2014 and I had a couple of decisions to make either I was gonna go to college that was option one option two was military And option three was figure it out on my own Yeah, well option one was add the picture because I didn't get accepted into any college. I applied for so that was an issue and option two I Don't think I just When I was talking to recruiting agents in the military just Something was not right In terms of me being in that department serving whether it was a warfighter or tech or Construction whatever was something wasn't right and maybe the other thing was fear Fear of serving in my country. So things just weren't an alignment there and then three I was like, well, I'm gonna figure this thing out on my own Soon as I said that I got a call a couple days later From a marketing company called Vector marketing Come to find out this company sells high-end kitchen cutlery and that is called cutco that brand I show up to an interview these people seemed really freaking excited about selling knives They blew me away. I was like, alright, I got nothing better to do I was working at an Italian restaurant and I was playing video games all day long That's really like was my day was playing video games doing sports activity. I was in wrestling. I was in band I was in football. So, you know, I enjoyed sports love playing video games called duty modern warfare I mean gears award you name it. Halo all that done it all, right and then Once I showed up to training at at cuckoo they expose me to Speaking communication networking sales Follow-up email text scripts sales scripts Referrals how to get leads. I mean my mind was blown at the Potential of how much money I could make just selling knives and in my brain. I was like well if I can learn how to sell knives I could probably sell anything like and That was a key Shift in my life and I was 18 at the time From 2015 2014 2015 all the way up to 2018 I still remain with I had I always had like a consistent job Right and I bounced in and out of network marketing MLMs direct sales companies. I was selling everything I was selling and Victor watches you name it. I was in and out of it skincare products protein shakes you name it I I sucked that all right I made a little money failed me the little money failed me the little money fail little money fail But along that whole entire path In in the faith world Whenever you talk to your pastor or someone of faith usually they they say something to you and they're like I received this from the Holy Spirit Right, so they'll say something along the lines of I See this in you Which would be your gift or your your skill your talent a treasure that you hold and Before you realize it other people say it and what what starts to make you believe it is when All different walks of life start saying the same thing so for me from 2015 all the way through 2018 People would tell me Denzel you have a good voice. You got a strong name. You could be on radio You have a nice solid voice. You have a nice voice. You could speak you do this like I kept hearing that over and over again Coming up to 2018 It just finally clicked one person whom I met his name is Alex Albran shout out to him He has a marketing business and he said dude you should record videos It was a little more specific the way he said it. Yeah, you should record videos. You have a solid voice You can get on social media and you can share and teach these things that you know It seems like you've got some really radical a pretty interesting financial concepts. I mean, I've never heard of this stuff but it seems like it really could work and I was like alright and Within a few weeks, I Just I bought one of them little magnetic things on that you put in the AC In your car and you hold the phone like with the driver's and lift drivers I just did that click record started talking about Velocity banking. What is it? How does it work? How I've been doing it? How does it work for me? How I paid off my debt? Then I said, you know what maybe should kind of write this out. I bought a little easel board in my room Literally you go to my YouTube channel. You can see the evidence you could see My room and you could tell it's a bedroom because you can see like a little piece of a bed on the end of video I didn't I didn't know how to edit record shoot nothing I mean my top my head was cut off. It's not as clean as this what you see right now so you can go back and you can actually see the evolution of Where I came from I share my story and all that good stuff, but those are some key details and then thirdly was my belief faith and surrender in Christ Jesus right being my Lord and Savior Receiving wisdom through the Holy Spirit into my life just surrendering to what I think I know about the world surrendering to what I think I know about money and just starting from a clean slate and My prayer has always been help me unlearn and relearn what I think I know about the kingdom what I think I know about money What I think I know about the economy geopolitics Polit you name it right and I I have this you know People call it this voice. I give it credit where credit's due. It's the Holy Spirit speaking through you Right, that's your communication through frequencies and whatever you want to call it but it's essentially the Holy Spirit talking to me and ministering me to Deliver my purpose my original intent My reasoning for existence here on planet Earth and to do that effectively righteously with ethics morals and values Here we are today, you know building a seven-figure business and Making more money than I ever could imagine and that's not even nothing compared to the potential Helping tens of thousands of people being able to talk to people like Caleb Where most would have to go through all these loopholes and it's like the Lord's is Open and doors open and doors. He also closes doors. Yeah, right? Flams doors and I I embrace that because it's a relationship. Yeah, right and Sometimes I'm gonna have a disagreement with God, but then at the end there. I remember. Oh, well, you did create me So you probably know more than I do. So, uh, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna suck it up dust my boots off and Knock on the next door, right, right talk to the next person talk to the next lead make the next sale, right? Get the next referral help whoever it is that need to serve So those are the key key details that have occurred in my life And I've just been steadfast staying consistent all the way through one of the things that I want to highlight about you is you're very abundant You're very open to collaborations. You want people to win You're very honest and I think there's no there's no doubt and there's there's a really great blueprint that you have on your on your YouTube on how to be successful because you just put yourself out there and I'm I think there's someone that's watching this there's someone that's listening to this that needs to start doing something You might now know what that thing is but you're making excuses on why You're not doing it on because of what your parents will think or your your friends will think or You know a random person on the internet would they'll comment and it's like man It is so freeing when you're when you're doing this out of gratitude And you're not your identity and your happiness is not built up on comments or what other people think of you and you have a pure intention So that's all the things that come to my mind when I think of who you are And so I'm so grateful that you are in my life and vice versa I'm very grateful to be speaking to you. So when when it comes to like you're starting to make videos You have a friend. It's like hey, you should start talking about these unique strategies First of all, what 18 year old understands velocity banking on the world Did you go from playing video games and all that stuff to like being able to articulate velocity banking? So I want you to break down what is velocity banking how you learned about it and how you can clearly articulate it So that someone listening this can hear this or someone watching this can be like, oh, that's velocity banking This is when I should look at doing that and this is when I probably shouldn't look at doing that Gotcha, so I'll give you the logical answer. I also give you the faith answer. So the the faith response How did I come across this concept? I truly believe the Lord our Heavenly Father gave this information to me without Putting a title on it or a concept on it. It was just a way of being right in my finances Soon as I turned 18 or 17 I remember getting my first credit card with Wells Fargo $300 secured credit card and if I'm not mistaken, I Think it came with rewards. I'm not too sure regardless. I was I had one bill which was my phone bill and Somehow my brain said it would make sense to run the bill on the credit card and paid off in 30 days in full Once I discovered the second and third credit card thing was like discover Bank of America It came with these cashback rewards First you got to build credit then you start getting access to some really cool Things in the credit space one of them being cashback rewards your percent offers etc So here I am little old, you know, 18 19 year old Denzel working making cash Right, I'm getting paid off the books and I'm taking that cash and I'm establishing credit So instead of putting my money in a savings account, which what everybody said I literally took the savings that I have 300 bucks and I secured it got a credit card And I started using it to pay my bills and then I pay myself back no interest Once that credit card graduated become unsecured. They gave me like I think it was like a thousand bucks of Credit and I think that's when I got like cashback rewards. Mm-hmm. I Would running I was running bills anytime. I went on a date and it's a gas food miscellaneous whatever have a mom you name it I Would run anything and everything I could through that card and then pay back in full off setting Some of my expenses by 30 $50 a month You're saying there's two things that you're doing you're deferring your payment But then you're also getting points and you're saying if I'm already gonna pay for the cell phone If I'm already you pay for this date or whatnot. I have the money instead of paying cash for that I'm gonna run it through a credit card and get all the benefits of using that credit card Right and this is 17 18 year old Denzel doing this right and then even after high school. I'm doing these things and And at the time I would say something is telling me something but now I give credit where credit student whole spirits guiding me the whole way through and Just to give that context there on the on the faith side. So that's simple Moving forward I Realize well if the bank's willing to give me more credit According to the score and the way that I use my funds What if I just kept doing it and applied for more? Right, right? So I'm like these like nobody taught me this you go back three generations in either bloodline mother father All of them have debt all of them barely any of them went to college Barely any of them have homes They're all in debt right go either way either direction from my bloodline No one has this knowledge. So somehow I got it, right and And then giving credit where credit's due now. Here's the logical part Going to cut go Getting involved in network marketing companies direct sales all these companies. They send you to Robert Kiyosaki Grant Cardone Tony Robbins You name it any guru in the finance space that talks money. I was reading their books so The concept came before the strategy was revealed Very interesting to how when you look in I believe it's either in Genesis I believe where where God kind of breaks down how he No, it's actually an Ephesians Ephesians talks about the mind of God how he works and Essentially God Starts with the end result Right, so he plans everything out It's already Predestined everything's already complete. He starts with the end in mind and then he goes back and he starts in the beginning Ba-ba-ba right got created out of that. So in in my life in the finance getting exposed to these concepts It was almost like The end result was revealed to me But then through logical Resources such as books courses seminars workshops, etc. Etc meeting people like you and many others in my journey The strategy started to cultivate itself and come together Finally 2017 this is years later 2017 I Discovered the name of the concept that I'm doing I Learned it from the Mormons from a company called Renatus. It's run ran. I think by a Mormon guy Real estate education company they call it velocity banking They say they got it from Australia in Australia. They call it mortgage acceleration or debt acceleration using offset accounts So they say it comes from Australia America adopted it called it velocity banking So you got the Mormons practicing it I've came across quite a few Jewish communities that practice this Asian communities and I was just like, well shoot. I'm Puerto Rican Colombian. Nobody talked about this stuff. What's this, you know And then I realized I was like what they were teaching they were like go get a credit card and Pull money from here to make a chunk here. I was like Huh, I kind of been doing that, you know And I acquired a personal unsecured revolving line of credit for about three to five K at a ten percent simple interest rate I was able to manipulate the rate all the way down to like three to five percent in terms of what I'm actually paying on a Month to month basis as I borrow the funds to gain access to more wisdom or knowledge more cash flow and So I answered it logically faith here. We are now. I've just gotten to the point where I've mastered it in a sense right and It's it's worked out very well and it's part of my fundamental groundwork for building my personal financial management system in my personal life, but also business is a foundational thing just like People have their foundational minimalist approach. Some people have a foundational seven baby step approach from Dave Ramsey Velocity banking is my foundational approach for the 21st century Right and it's when you break down velocity banking Yeah, the way that I think of velocity banking is I think of using a home Using a HELOC running money through that it sounds like your version of velocity banking is You know the home the zero percent credit cards Essentially, let's if we can get points if we can defer our payment and we can create more cash flow We're using leverage and and creating more cash flow getting more points and You're not playing with fire because you're paying it off But you would admit that if you're not disciplined it could backfire on you Correct and to go even a layer deeper just looking at the words velocity banking I Take velocity one of my banking money The goal is how many times can you use your dollars? More than once most people think one time Pull the dollar pay for something the dollars gone Yeah, I like to leverage that one dollar up to as many as seven times before I release my initial seed Which was that initial dollar? How can I take this dollar make it three? Borrow two create six to ten pay back The three yeah, I never lost the one right right it's still in my possession So I'm that's one intent is how many times can we leverage more than one dollar? That's velocity and then banking is the flow Right the flow the velocity of money the speed and direction at which money moves right we're solving for that and Then thirdly everything is about cash flow, right? How can I? create enough cash flow to supply my daily requirements of Living right I recently learned the difference between requirements and needs Right in in the faith realm so to speak You know as as a born-again faith believer Technically I have no needs because my needs are met by my supplier, right God the father But since you're a flesh body you still have requirements to sustain your flesh food water shelter Money resources, etc. So my intent is how do I supplement my requirements with cash flow? To the point where I'm now living in abundance and excess I have no worry Right, and I've been able to reach that in literally one to one to four years, so I've been in business now four years and now I'm at a point where I'm living in in what's called kingdom living kingdom environment where I have Completely supplemented my all of my requirements to live and sustain this body this flesh, right? And I'm now able to be an abundant giver I'm able to receive in abundance because I've created the systems to receive in abundance That's where people pay you money. All right, a lot of people forget that part They like to give give give and help help help, but you also need a replenish, right? There's that there has to be a flow. So that's what velocity banking solves or so it's way more than just Barring money from the banks, right? It has to do with that fundamental a Reminder in your brain, right? I'm solving for cash flow and how many times can I leverage this one dollar? Because leverage gives me an advantage Over others. Yep, right agree to to move faster to get ahead to Beat the so-called algorithms of the world so to speak the math equations I'm I'm my purpose is to walk in my purpose my original intent my my reasoning for existence So I need to pull resources together in order to conduct myself effectively So that others may see how they can also do it Right so that I'm not giving them negative energy giving nothing nothing but positivity in their life because they're seeing that the confidence the the language Right the belief like a true believer in everything that I do And so that's what we saw for that's the blueprints that I lay out in my videos that are hour hour and a half long They're not Mickey Mouse ten minute clips where I'm selling you the concept I'm literally giving you the whole cake and you can eat it too, right? And you don't have to pay me a dime, right? I've made it very transparent in my videos. I'm like I need y'all to get this because there is a issue in our country like you've said multiple times in your videos about Saving how important it is to save and just these fundamental things that And I just like to take it a step Layer deeper and say well, how do you say when that's where if you don't mind I would dress that right I would love to get actually into the nuts and bolts because I think people really appreciate that I'll just I'll just comment on a couple things velocity money in motion creates more money. It's an amazing principle to live by Then you think of banking you think of institutions that are doing it better than us and and just the flow and I love that and then cash flow Ultimately is the financial metric that makes the world go around and if you're truly wanting to measure Your financial success now and in the future cash flow is the most accurate way to do that Because it is the thing that makes the world go around so I really appreciate Just your heart behind this and and your philosophy. Let's get let's get in the nuts and bolts when you say your goal is to with one seed Ie one dollar which is becoming less and less valuable as we speak With one dollar you're trying to get seven uses. I love that. Can we get practical and say how? how are you going about that and I think that that's that's gonna be an amazing hack if we can plant that seed with people Yeah, so I always when I'm working with people's Numbers, you know, I got to get the the most important stuff. I start with income expense debt and cash flow I need to know where you're at where you've been and where you want to go. So I start with your four major numbers How you're currently operating? I'll go back in time. This is my numbers back in 2018 before I started the YouTube channel, right? I was Little like 25 to 30k in debt with a net cash flow every month every month roughly 500 bucks right and What I was trying to figure out is how do I take this to and make it 20 grand, right? So I had to set the initial Goal a lot of people are like they start here. I want to remove debt and That's great, you know, and if I teach people this too, but I try to also plant the small seed that says Hey, what if we just simply added a zero? To your current Income per month. That's 10 x right. So that's one strategy right there I'm taking this this 2000 bucks and I need to get my goals to try to get seven uses out of right every single dollar Yep, right And then I also kind of go over like seven different essentially models of Which we can do that Then there's also the the steps like how many times Did that money get a use? Before it left you right right and even after it left you how do we make it come back to you? right so Leverage number one is obviously the concept velocity banking learning that Okay Two is infinite banking So when you say the concept of velocity banking, it's take out a credit card or refinance your in it of itself Right in it of itself. I've got money and I need to decide what what do I want to do with it? Do I want to go into debt to create a debt that creates cash flow? Okay, or do I want to acquire debt that helps me pay off debt? So velocity banking solves for both and that would be in the case of getting a credit card Personal line of credit Helock and and you're saying because normally and this is my criticism to velocity bankers is they're like Except like their whole goal is to pay off your mortgage And I think that's silly But their whole deal is let's accelerate your debt so that we can pay off debt and you're saying you can do velocity banking and build assets Which mathematically may be more strategic? Mathematically may be more strategic And unfortunately what what happens in this very Overwhelming amount of information the age of information that we're in It can be difficult to Transition someone from a Dave Ramsey mindset right right into the world of velocity banking So velocity banking to accelerate debt is a bridge. I got it helps them kind of get out of that Funk of being cheap and poor-minded. Yeah, too So in other words, yeah, if you can use velocity banking to help them pay off their debt faster Then it's like okay. I now got a hold of you Yes Then then it's like okay is the goal to be debt-free or is the goal to maybe take a step back and have more cash flow So you can go back to your drawing. I just I just want to like emphasize that and I appreciate you articulating that Yeah, and perfect example would be in 2018 That was my in the door helping you pay off that everybody wants to pay off that right and become debt-free. Okay, cool I got you in the door. I'm building no like and trust and now I'm speaking with clients that I've acquired in 2018 2019 They've paid off Most of their debt except for their mortgage and student loans. Those are two big ones that are left and then they're like Then tell it's gonna take me like Five to seven years on average. That's what velocity banking does that snowball that avalanche average is nine to 13 years on average With those strategies so five to seven years is much better than nine to 13. That's not bad at all. Okay, great Well, then I say well in that same amount of time Caleb Instead of you becoming debt-free in five to seven years What if I helped you went go from making five grand a month to fifty thousand a month in the same Time frame and then you can literally write a check Caleb to pay off all your debt right in year 4.9 I get it 5.6 right so like that's that's like my my in the door. I Unfortunately, I can't lead with that right away It doesn't sound real it's not tangible enough or I just need to work on my speaking skills right and that's You know, that's not bad. I'm only 26 so it's gonna take time But velocity banking I get a personal line of credit or he like I'm making two grand a month if I get access to Ten grand which is what I did making two grand I got access to a ten thousand dollar personal line of credit At a at the time was a was a 10% rate So two to ten I've already multiplied The money right 500 is my cash flow per month times 12 that's 6k a year Right. I'm thinking what is the most effective way to use this Free net cash flow. I can only reduce my expenses by so much right That there that's a limit Here income has no limitation other than my own self belief about that So I'm trying to break that And I Formally and get into these concepts. So, you know, three ten X would be another concept. I integrate with this Infinite banking is the whole idea of recapturing all of this Right. So I was like, how do I recapture my expenses? Oh, well You could potentially if done correctly you can run it Through a cash value life insurance policy in combination with your cash flow To cover the cost of that tool And then now I dump I dump six plus expenses Right into this new vehicle Which now that vehicle comes with a death benefit Which is hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions depending on your age health and finances. So Notice how that's another use of money. Right. Okay and then I can I can Borrow the same money I seeded In the form of cash value loans At an interest rate and then maybe I seed that into Helping myself move from E and S Yep To be an I Yeah, you're referencing rubber kisaki instead of being in rubber kisaki 500 Yeah, you know or more labor force and that is another Form of leveraging your dollars Is acquiring a labor force? That can fulfill The mission and vision that you have for your life In which can also help other people's missions and visions So now you're now you're sprinkling the infield spreading the wealth Right. So that's another Leverage is the the the b quad Model right And then five which because now is that the business quadrant right here? Yeah, the business quadrant 500 or more labor force. I'm only at two And I'm already generating 500 or more at labor force. What do you mean by that? Big business got it Right the intent should you should have the intent of going big and nothing less Is that the 10x model based off of grand card? That's the 10x model. Right, right? Thinking big, you know getting out of thinking small Right, my you know, there's only one Denzel on planet earth. There will only ever be one There will only ever be one Denzel on planet earth. I'm so unique Right so different That I should maximize the time I have here Because I'm only here for a limited time, right, right and while I'm here. I also want to Maximize my time on figuring out where am I going? Because if I don't figure that out, right, none of this crap matters, right? Like none of this crap matters. You can obtain the whole world lose your soul and now You're in another place for eternity that you don't necessarily want to be you you didn't Maybe intent to be there but you ended up there because you didn't focus on the The matters at hand that truly concerns your life overall And so the faster that I can help people become free from this master, which is money To then discover who the real master is so leverage five So I did the b quad right that's another use of money and then five because you're in business Now it's all about reduce reducing your tax liability Yeah, that's fair. So you're saying five like over and over again You're saying if you're already paying a tax And you're now a business owner and you're able to deduct certain things or through a corporate structure figure out how to reduce something That's a dollar that was leaving And now you're attaining it and so that's like a quote unquote infinite return Which by the way, this is not a testament of advice don't sue us. But that that's is that your concept of another lever? Another correct. It's like Wait a minute if I can tap into my tax liability and reduce it from five percent Reduce it all the way down to 10 percent or less or or in some cases in many cases Ideally reducing it to zero Nada nothing that now produces cash flow And again, this money is now being rinsed And going into the the structures right of of leverage over and over again, right, right? so honestly There's there's two other ones. I lost it in my head. Yeah, but Five is enough One is enough Two is enough like what i'm dealing with a single mom Three four kids never really managed finances a day in our life and then loses a husband The spouse passes away and now they're responsible Here's how I work with them. I love it. I love the leverage in fact meet them where they're at I um, I have this talk and i'm my next book is it going to be called value leveraging And it's this whole idea of provide value Um and and be valuable and then amplify that value and we actually go through 14 elements of how to leverage and only talk about Opa or opm other people's money But then opa is other people's audiences and then you have the podcast effect And you have the whiteboard effect what you use and the youtube effect and it's um the coding effect and there's the charisma effect These are all things that you have that can create this this amplification um and the problem is and this is really the thing I want to talk about is if your Your philosophy is not built on value. The worst thing you could do is take out credit cards and Put in unvaluable things or take out a bunch of debt or do Infinite banking and all those things are like they are amplifiers And they're either going to amplify good or bad. Um, I want to talk about infinite banking Um, is there anything else you want to talk about that and then let's talk about infinite banking because there's some things You help me remember You help me remember the other two you said it other people's Audiences I say other people's stages Um in terms of speaking Uh kingdom authority is a leverage accessing another infinite resource Which is your gift and I talk about the levels of authority with my uh clients And I talked to them about how you how do we get back to the author? right, right And if you're the author of something You have authority over what you wrote. So if you're Caleb wrote a book called the and asset. He's the author Everything in that book is his His concepts his strategies his ideas his philosophies are in that book if I want to figure out what's in that book before I read it I got to go to him. Well, because he wrote it. He has authority to talk about it and because he has authority to talk about it He's authorized Right. He's giving authorization To have others Sell it for him a k a b quad Right having others push the book for him Like myself because I read it and I know it's a good book Right, and then this video is going to go on my channel opa other people's audiences people are going to buy that book Which again, he's authorizing me because I read it And if I read his material and I become a master in it as well It would be wise of him to then give authorization to those who believe in his concepts That that want to you know move forward with it and Because I'm not the author But he gave me authority to speak on it authorization It leaves me with I can authentically preach talk speak share about his book called the and asset Right and that right there is a huge leveraging flow of financial resources money to fulfill your requirements to live on this planet Right and then live in abundance. So that was going to be my other Leverage mentality. So these are all the leverages that I like to incorporate with somebody's dollars I think I think it's great I think it's an even better mental exercise because if you can start getting people to start thinking bigger thinking outside the box It's we don't live in a linear world And I just had a video That went out that essentially says is debt dumb and is cash king and essentially it's like this cash if you read on your dollar bill It's a reserve note a federal reserve note. So is it possible that we're just dealing with a Unleveraged debt And everything's debt and it doesn't make debt good. It doesn't make paying cash bad It just makes it all kind of on the same playing field and it goes back to what if there is another metric like cash flow that we could Measure things from so love love that concept and it's like you and I didn't come overnight and just like come out of the womb Thinking these things it really is based on principles. One thing I will also say is the the beauty of network marketing Is it's a very cheap Education because you get around people that are thinking big your reading books. They're challenging. They're making you sell I have a ton of respect for people in the LDS Faith because they're they're going two two years on a mission and knocking on doors And and and they are building some incredible Resilience and I think it's some of the same with network marketing now. That's all I'll say there's pros and cons and Um, I I could we could probably do a whole video on the pros and cons to network marketing But um, I think it's cool that you are the type of person regardless what money you made in network marketing You're the type of person because of the other leverage effects That came from you being there and I think It just all comes full circle Anything else that you want to mention that before we talk about infinite banking because you mentioned some things and I would really really like to to Share and talk through and I think we're going to serve a lot of people and just our dialogue as it relates to Infinite banking pros and cons of that and just language behind what we say I would I would just say just to kind of close the the conversation with velocity banking for right now because we're just having a Conversation here for those that are listening to the conversation. You're getting the mindset the mind of The way I think of these concepts you want to get the actual Blueprints and formats that's you know, totally different, you know video Where I lay out the numbers and stuff But also keep in mind at the end of the day all i'm trying to do is borrow from peter To either pay paul To do a job To do a work for me that produces cashflow or to acquire paul's asset a.k.a. real estate small business, etc Or stock or whatever that may be If i'm paying From uh, if i'm borrowing from peter to pay paul off My intent is when I borrowed from peter. He's not charging me any interest paul was charging me interest So if I can simply borrow at zero cost And pay off something that was costing me something and then I recapture the cashflow from that you are essentially beating the interest Versus you just taking your net free cash flow each and every month and applying it to paul each and every month paul's gonna hit you no matter what with interest Whether you use all your cash flow 50% of your cash flow 25% 100% you're still gonna pay interest What if you could completely eliminate the interest? offset it And now put put you in a better financial position to then say okay now that I know how to leverage A little bit I paid off my car paid off some credit cards I thought my personal loan and this business loan got this mortgage left and student loans. Well before I tackle that beast What if I acquired three more beasts like that, but actually instead of me paying it it pays me So it's just I just switched the mindset on you and that's what we get into leveraging to create cash flow rather than leveraging to Just pay off debt. You always have to deal with taxation inflation devaluation So inflation you combat that by eliminating interest A bit, but you're not really truly breaking even Right. So in velocity banking full transparency, you're not gonna solve for all three if you're just paying off debt But if you solve for cash flow, you can absolutely Cover all three get ahead of all three taxation inflation and devaluation of the dollars, right? So we'll close it out right there and then step into infinite banking because that's even well, what's the difference? more of a powerful concept what's the difference between inflation and Evaluation because I feel like they're very similar inflation are very similar, but from my education and just speaking with some other folks Inflation just simply means that the price of something goes up right But it doesn't necessarily mean that the value of the currency went down Something else if i'm understanding correctly something else causes the value of the currency to drop And that has to do with printing More money But it's a correlation if I print more money, right? I need to raise my price On these products and services because now there's more of this money, but why? Right like I I try to ask well, why why would I? Increase my price as some people do not increase their pricing Some people do so that's how I knew I was like wait, there is a difference Yeah, that's fair inflation is different and then devaluation is something totally different having to do with printing mismanagement of funds And then the taxation part is a whole another monster on on on every single Dollar that that comes into your economy. So being able to remove that And then get into vehicles like infinite banking like Real assets tangible assets non duplicatable assets Can combat inflation regardless of what happens to the currency the asset will always remain It'll always preserve It's it's value. It cannot technically devalue right House will always be a house Right it provides a place for you to live How can that possibly devalue itself? Other than you know maintenance and that kind of thing, but if I maintain the asset If I have something like gold or if I have something like silver or cash value It's not that the asset is devaluing. It's the currency So it requires more of that currency to purchase that asset, but it's still the same asset Gold will always be gold a house will always be a house a business will always be a business But for some reason It's costing more. So that's where Separate the three taxation inflation devaluation. Yeah, I think it's a tough one. I still get confused myself Totally and I think it's at the end of the day People say it differently and when you we inflate the money supply It rb dollars become less valuable And and as a rate relate they correlate and at the same time you're totally right like that is there's other factors It would be fullest for us to think just printing of money. There's probably more factors But more factor when we when we're printing trillions trillions of dollars and we're like, huh? I wonder why all the prices are increasing You know, but there's there's uh people in power that would disagree with that economic logic And so who am I, you know, let's talk about infinite banking and um, my my my two cents on infinite banking is you know, you utilize a life insurance policy Um, a lot of people choose to do whole life. You overfund it Some people call it fully funding it meaning you're maximizing the cash You're minimizing the the base insurance cost and you're using things like term riders and pua riders to stack the cash And the benefits that you get is you get your one dollar to Row the rest of your life with special tax advantages. You can uh lend against it or borrow against it You get your life insurance benefits in in the future gives you different options. It protects you Creates a legacy effect in some cases allows entrepreneurs like you and I to save more money Um, and if we're gonna get uh, wooey It helps you show up more powerfully. It might unlock some areas of thinking it might allow you to take on more Quote-unquote risk or opportunities because you know that your foundation is secure So it's like right there. Those are six leverage effects of quote-unquote infinite banking and it's and it's not and I just want to be very Very very very very clear that life insurance and setup and use properly is not an investment But over time it can be a very efficient place to save your money and it's One of the most efficient paper assets when it comes to privacy and other benefits Anything that you want to add to that Because then I want to get into some of the language that we use some of the confusion That I think people have some of the mistakes people make and how you can use infinite banking Have you you and your clients have used infinite banking to really take their wealth to the next level? Absolutely And so we're resonating on The same frequency you basically said it's a safe secure liquid guaranteed asset Right. It it doesn't fail As long as you proceed with what was originally designed for the cash value account itself So it has that safety security and liquidity It's not an investment You know, I had a very interesting conversation with a gentleman by the name of a Todd Baldwin, I believe his last name Awesome youtube channel. He's a real estate guy multimillionaire He's he's all about Really maximizing making as much money as he possibly can to protect his family great Language is very important when you are discussing financial matters Because it can determine a taxable event from a non taxable event A certain jurisdiction over another jurisdiction Right. So language is very very key when we say something is not an investment Therefore, you cannot compare what is not from what is does that make sense? so often a lot of people struggle with Pairing this particular product cash value life insurance with some of the normal things that they're accustomed to IRAs Ross pension plans 401ks 403b plans brokerage accounts You name it right, so we do have to separate and Some people like my friend Todd Baldwin Truly believes that they're interchangeable one in the same. He does not separate Savings from investing we had we had a very very deep conversation on this so that I can get into his mind And I say okay now. I know why You don't have this particular asset and others do Because he does not separate Saving dollars from investing dollars Every dollar he brings in to his economy Immediately gets pushed out into investments that he believes in that he masters in that he knows very well And he's producing cash flow That's a strategy. That's that's great but When we start separating one man's philosophy Or two man's philosophies or three or all these different opinions At some point we have to go back to what what is a foundational truth In the matter of finance in terms of how our jurisdiction Of the united states our commercial regulated jurisdiction actually operates And in the irs tax code Everything is codified and explained as to what is and what is not right if I have money that I generate inside of a A multiple flow of trust of a trust flow model I make money in that model. No taxes is incurred But the same can happen if I make that same money in an LLC or an s-corp or a c-corp Now I'm liable for taxes. Why? jurisdiction Is a territory over which a government rules its laws in order so you and I Live in the jurisdiction of the united states america And there are rules Some people are playing chess like you and I others are playing checkers right It's the same board right different pieces, right? so it is so important to separate So that you know where every dollar goes and that goes back to my point about knowing your numbers So when i'm working with people I say, okay, you have a cash flow of x From that net cash left that you spent your your your bills and you paid your debts Where are you giving? Are you giving money? Okay, that's an expense. Are you saving money? You're saving 300 a month Okay, where? In a bank account. That's not earning anything Okay, that 300 is different from the 400 a month that you're putting into your 401k Which is an investment which has a higher potential to yield a better result than the 300 So what kaleb and I do Just from watching your material And reading your book You're separating that because you're saying this is the end asset and your 401k and your ira and your rost and this this tool And all we're trying to do is redirect the lack of your performance of your savings dollars And then also the recapturing of your expenditures hence the whole creating a banking system for your for your money for your flow, right? So we're resonating on that that that's very very key. It's not an investment in the tax code. It's not an investment section 7702 with the new mech laws Identifies and lays some of these things out. And I think there's some other codes that deal with cash value life insurance that I don't know off the top of my head But it truly does separate it Right and this tool pre exists The irs which is why There's that separation of investment versus Well, uh a non-investment to quote tom wheel right and his book tax free wealth The tax code it's like the tax code is a few pages of telling you what you owe and then hundreds and thousands of pages and A treasure mac and how to pay as little tax as possible and you look at incentives Government's going to incentivize what they want if everyone own life insurance, especially permanent life insurance Our country would be massively wealthy because we're making investments not just in ourselves but in the next generation and the government would not have to pay out as much in other Benefits because we are privately Supporting our family ourselves and and our neighbors and so it's one of those things where I I really believe Everyone wins when this is done properly And and the society is better off if it wasn't I think it would be one of those quote-unquote loopholes that Would potentially create a red flag or people would abuse but at the end of the day The government long term is better off when people are You know doing this and it's the government's just a collective of people And so that's just one of those things where I love what you're what you're saying And it's really good to be like take a step back and say man like I love that this is Like like I get it because a lot of people will ask me like hey like when do you think this loophole will close and all that stuff? And it's like that's I think sometimes people Overhype this and they're like man. This is the best kept secret. It's not but it's it sure is amazing If we put on our realistic hat and say like hey, this could be this could be great The other thing I'll say based on what your comments to Todd and others is we just take out language This is how I would simplify it person a Doesn't have permanent life insurance Maybe buys term Invest the difference and goes on their merry way and hopefully lives a super happy life person b buys permanent life insurance over some funds that the way that you and I would you know recommend and utilizes it hopefully leverages it Are is person b better off than person a if the answer is no then permanent life insurance is not this magic wand that they should have The answer is yes. It doesn't matter what we call it. They're better off And you know what I'm saying? It's like it really comes down to does this thing does this Widget does this black box does this whatever you want to call it? Does it help you be more intentional? Does it help you get results? Does it get you what you want? And one of the things that I'm on a mission to doing is like educating on the multi-dimensional aspect of an asset Like not all assets are created equal and there's some assets that give you more benefits than others You might not let like guarantee Private protection the death benefit might not mean anything to you that doesn't make you a bad person You just like I don't care about that. Well, then those benefits mean less than some other people that come to us that it means a lot to them You know what what is the rate of return of having privacy and creditor protection? I don't know but it is a benefit and not all assets have that Um Any any comments on that before we jump into some of the language? What is your what is your answer when that a and b situation? Is it subjective or is it like? listen, I I I get um I get Comments all over the place because I love love permanent life insurance. I've written a book on this I've interviewed nelson-nash and I have some amazing friends and partners that are part of the infinite banking You know group and I'm grateful for that like nelson was a dear friend and I'm grateful for what he's done And and at the same time I don't want to get wishy-washy and it's just like velocity banking like Not any one of these strategies is just magical It has a lot more to do with your mindset right and at the end of the day if someone If they if they will not live more intentionally and they won't You know go through the process correctly They may be better off buying term insurance investing the difference That doesn't make life insurance a fraud or a scam that just makes it right They are not going to utilize the tool and as a result the tool is going to actually create a drag in their household economy Yeah, so you're not taking the approach that Velocity banking is for everyone infinite banking is for everyone like that. I don't take that approach either I think that's what i'm getting from Your your scenario it's it's a matter of what is the most effective thing that's going to improve your life Right, how do we solve for that as as insurance agents as consultants as content creators? Essentially quote-unquote gurus. How do we convey that that message to the audience where hey instead of comparing and and Getting in that that game. It's a it's a suckers game to really compare this with that and that with this and this with that like What if you encompassed? A multitude of everything and created your own custom strategy, you know, whenever I talk to my audience I make jokes. I'm like you've got grandpa Dave You've got uncle g and then you've got cousin d You can get something from all three of us, right? Uncle Dave is old school Uncle g is is old school with new school thoughts and then cousin d is right in between right Your personal finance give you the 21st century. I'm taking from the best of the both worlds of what they have to offer and I made it my own And now I'm sharing it and saying here's here's an effective strategy and the whole uh, the whole idea of you know finance you can put that on a on an index card everything you need to know about Finance you can just put on an index card. That is a to me. That's a false mentality No way There's no way that that's also a suckers game to assume That you can just put everything about finance on a on a simple index card, right everything you need to know And then you're quote-unquote going to be free That is not the case, right? I I do believe that you you need to simplify it to a framework You need to simplify. Yeah, you can absolutely simplify it. Yeah leverage could be a part of the framework and we could give you 100 examples of how to use leverage Yeah, there's no I mean, especially my bad handwriting I would I would get to I would get to the third lever and run out of room. So And I love this I love this too. This is good. Yeah, I've um watched a lot of your videos and um, you know I I know that one thing that you switch into your language is instead of saying borrowing from a life insurance policy You're talking about borrowing against I want to want to talk about other epiphanies that you've had that you're like, man, like What are some of the things that you've learned about quote-unquote infinite banking that you like that you you have learned now that you've been in the process You get the honor of getting connected with all kinds of people that are gurus that you and I both learn from What are some of the other epiphanies that you've learned? In language and have you grown up more convicted over permanent life insurance? Or do you feel like you're less convicted as you're just realizing like, oh, it's not it's not the hype train that I thought it was to be Correct. I was very excited about the browser. Oh my god. This is like, yo, this is the thing But then as I began to really learn more and more I'm like It's not really all that guys. It's not going to make you a multimillionaire. Let's not fall into that Category as insurance agents where this is the one and done type of strategy. That is a that's a suckers game Don't do that because now you're just Again, you're comparing it to you just putting money into a 401k and expecting this thing To give you financial freedom. That's not how financial freedom works at all it's a multitude of you re Discovering who you are as a person how you operate most effective on this planet And then what requirements what resources you need to conduct yourself effectively? So there's way more to it than just oh, well instead of putting my money in a 401k I'm gonna put it here. Like I don't I don't play that game with people. I'm just like Keep your 401k. Keep your religion and have this too Right. So to speak like you've got a religion about your money. Here's another philosophy Keep what you're doing. How do we add to it? And then you might come to a conclusion that oh shoot what I'm doing kind of sucks I mean, I got to deal with the 40 ordinary income tax rate. How do I? Release that liability and move that into this tax-free component and wouldn't I have more technically the number would be less But I'd have more right. That was another thing. That's an a that was a huge epiphany for me Right that I discovered with cash value life insurance Versus, you know, and this is not the most effective way to do this But it does have some merit to it where I was um recently Just running some numbers with a gentleman Who is uh, 51 years old and he's got like I think over 350 plus k in his um 401k and he's gonna keep funding it. I think till age 65 He predicted he would have three million dollars in there and he could live fine for the rest of life And I told him you're sadly mistaken my friend. That's not enough money Like even if you Acquired five million dollars even if you acquired seven million dollars It's not enough money and here's why it's the way you accumulated it Because what you're not accounting for Is the taxes? Which you will be at the highest tax rate ordinary income tax when you distribute those funds out of your 401k number one Number two, you're now you're not accounting for inflation inflation is now over 7% and it's rising And every year the cost of goods while your money is growing the cost of your living is also growing with it right Then you've got the whole devaluation thing of money right Then you've got cost And fees and here's where I would argue in many cases The cash value life insurance supersedes this it beats this right here. It eliminates this Stays ahead of this Right and you don't have to worry about devaluation necessarily as long as you are using the vehicle to acquire other vehicles that can combat that Right and again the cost and fees are are less over the long haul So a lot of people don't account for cost and fees and then the one big one Is losses. So this was a huge epiphany for me when you do the math Um, they you know, the gurus tell you you take 4% Yeah, right distribution of 3 million dollars A year so that's 120 grand a year right and he was saying that when he's He's this age when when he's here his cost of living will be this and I said no it will not It's going to be more like here, buddy So you're going to have to take out more and my friend what happens when you're 65 And you do your first distribution whether it's on a monthly or an annual basis And then another covet breaks out or another bank bailout or another Recession or another depression or another black market or another market crash or real estate crash So you lose 20 percent of 3 million dollars Do you know how much harder it is just to recapture? What you lost? Right. So if I lose 20 percent of 3 million That's 600 grand What most people don't realize is if you earned Right, so you went from you went from 3 million Right, and then you minus 600 grand now you have 2.4 What would be the rate of return? Just to restore back to 3 million. I promise you it's not 20 Right, it's way more than that just to break even right and that's that's why they're saying the 4 percent rolls aggressive with this typical model and some people are saying 3 percent or 3 and a half percent So that just brings your 120 number down lower Yes, you include inflation It's it's uh, you're gonna your cost of living Just to maintain your current standard of living is going to increase and then the big thing is what our tax is going to be on that 120 I don't know. Yeah, it's going to be something and that's ordinary income And so here's yeah Here's where I blow people's minds. I say what if I just helped you generate at least a half a million a year Right, and I use my numbers Right, I said I I almost made almost a half a million one year right my total expenses that year Was somewhere around 200k so the net Let's say this is your expense you you generate 500k Right, you spend 200 taxes cost fees operation living everything unit three Right, this is your online e-commerce business. Let's just say unit 300k. You can even go lower than that right say Say half 50 percent 250k my friend 250k and cash flow after everything is done Divide that by 12 my friend That's 20 grand a month versus 120 divided by 12. That's 10 Yeah, thousand and I didn't again We have to minus your cost of living Yeah, well and right and so most people are just solving for oh, I just need to cover my my my lifestyle and my whoa That's not a good model my friend. You need to have access For emergencies the fact that you're going to get older health cares and get more expensive And I just started dropping these things. I'm like the number that your problem isn't accumulating Right, well, right you need to per well that is the problem. Well, the problem is you're accumulating Let me ask you this this is take that 500 gross number and divide it by 0.04 Tell tell us what number that's going to be So if you take 500 000 and divide it 0.04 which represents the four percent rule the distribution you're going to get a number of 12 million plus 12 million plus Okay, so what's what's easier? Is it is it to accumulate 12 million? Or is it to Create 500 and now these are both big numbers, right? But one of the things that we like to do is reverse engineer the it's like what's easier to to hope to accumulate your money and hope it grows and You know or figure out levers where it's like creating half a million dollars. Don't get me wrong. That's not like that's not easy But it's like I would take that all day long and when you realize that half a million dollars Income stream is an equivalent of having a 12 plus a million dollar portfolio You want you wonder why it's like man, um, why am I doing this? Blew my mind with that math I just blew my mind with that math. I didn't I because I didn't know what you were getting at because I'm you know Uh, I often tell people I'm like, I'm not a math guru. Like I'm still learning But that little equation that you did because I was like, what does he mean 500 and I divided by zero I got 12.5 million. I thought I was doing something wrong But then you said it and you were like it's over 12 mil and I'm like, oh, he's talking about the amount Of the distribution To to to have that You would work 12.5. We're take if we're if we're playing the typical traditional game We then four percent. We yeah, and and if it's three percent Then do it even worse. It's probably around. Oh my god So it's like that's that's the game from a standpoint is this is what's fun is this is actually more realistic If you can create 10 000 dollars of cash flow and we're going to play the four percent rule Take 10 000 divided by 0.04. What do you what is that number? 10 000 divided by 0.4 250k okay, so what is easier you're starting off you're starting off you're 21 years old What is easier to try to create 10 000 dollars of cash flow? Or to do the typical route and save up 250 Right. It's way easier to produce cash flow Today especially now more than ever before the 10k and in there if there's pushback again because i'm cool if there's pushback because i'm all about Efficiency and there's not one size fits all but I I tend to agree with you and um, and it's it's just one of those things where It helps us just think differently because what is the goal of retirement? What's the goal of accumulating money? What's the goal of putting it in the 401k? Create cash flow I just think right that it's not the most efficient way to create cash flow and you look at all the other leverage effects And so man, this is so much fun. We could we should really talk more. This is great You can blew my mind just now and I hope the audience caught that what we just went over here You you you see the the break Like I have been blessed to work with people that are double and triple my age. That's my average client age is 45 55 and up every single one of those clients that are between 55 approaching retirement 59 65 not one of them Can honestly say to me that they're financially free independent And the ones that did everything correctly Denzel I have a pension. I have a social security I I have the the pension and I have income from uh, uh because they were veterans So they have income from the government From being a vet they got a pension they got a 401k. They got a Roth Still not enough money. I'm like Wait a minute. You did everything right here. I have a client that makes good money on paper But they're still cash flowing to 3000 4000 and they got a 1.2 million dollar home and they got student loans and they got these other debts So they they have that issue the the debt part But they also have not solved for enough cash flow because you don't have enough money To live the lifestyle that you actually want to live right? Um, and what's even worse is you don't even have enough money to sustain the lifestyle You currently have so you have to downgrade And then there's this whole notion about you being an empty nester having less bills your debts are paid off Well, that's not happening in my experience working with hundreds of families all across every all the 50 states right That's not happening and i'm witnessing this at 26 years old and i'm like, oh my goodness What is what is the? deficiencies In these strategies that these that these people are doing because these are smart people doctors lawyers telling you We're but again, we're not thinking with the end in mind I mean, I could take every area of someone's life. They're not thinking with the end in mind And so we're we're we're just deferring. Oh, we're gonna do this. We're gonna defer our tax We're gonna do this this this this and if we actually understood how income planning works We would potentially think a little bit differently I'm biased but I you know, I'm biased because I've seen the numbers I've seen the exact same people that you've talked to and it's like man I wouldn't trade I wouldn't I wouldn't want to trade places with them And if I would have Knowing what I know what would I've done differently and it all comes down to make decisions today To enhance the result that you want and if and if you're if you're going for retirement planning your let's call it what it really is is future cash flow planning and optimize it for future cash flow because Unless it's legacy and then optimize it for legacy, you know, and so it's one of those things where I really do believe you can fit it on you can fit your core principle and framework on a note card And then you got to work with experts to really go deep and make sure that each one of those areas are optimized Going back to infinite banking by the way, there's one other thing I want to say and we're like running way off the time I don't know if you have a hard stop, but I I'm grateful good. I I I blocked out a lot of time. We're good um So a lot of people say they're recapturing their interest And or they're you know running their expenses through their infinite banking These are I want to have an authentic combo with you You've you've I mentioned the expenses thing um I think those are two areas that we got to be very careful about and there's a lot of people that just That's where they get confused. It's like they read a book and they're like, oh I'm going to go buy a car and go on vacation and I'm my I'm going to make money and I'm going to run my expenses And my premium is going to equal my income and then my policy is recapturing interest and I'm paying interest back to myself and I'm like, okay Half-truths Right because it's like I yes Is it more efficient to buy a liability with the policy versus cash? asterisk yes and I'm I hope we understand the core principles and I would go out and get a bank loan and and if I could if I'm okay with the payment if it's more efficient than borrowing from the insurance company and recapturing interest Is essentially my money is able to grow But my interest is going to the insurance company not me. So these are some of the things I just want to talk about because I think it will be a really interesting discussion. I feel like we can talk about anything in this space So I'll hand over the floor to you and we'll we'll uh further this convo Yeah, so I have also made tweaks On this strategy as well and I've come to the conclusion that The only expenses that I see valuable Running through a policy is anything that I can earn cashback rewards on And any bill that I can actually reduce the bill by switching it from a monthly to an annual and I laid this out in Uh, quite a few videos with my own numbers and I'll do it here quickly because it's still fresh in my mind um, and again, I go back to the root of Which dollars I am allocating to the cash value life insurance. So me personally in my business. I've been blessed I'm saving a little over six figures a year in in cash value life insurance. I have two policies myself Which equal 85 000 a year. So just dealing with one policy that I'm funding 70 000 a year, right? It's it's 70 000 of Savings dollars money that has no purpose yet sits in a bank account has no purpose Now instead of me sending all of that to my cash value life insurance policies Right. I I do I have like a rule where I do like a portion Right of all of my Income that I make have like a 10 10 10 type of rule that I that I do um But I also was experimenting with the whole expense Right running expenses. I'm like a lot of insurance guys talk about this and they're recovering and they're talking about recovering 50 opportunity costs and these wild numbers and I'm like something's not adding up for me because I'm not getting the same results So I you know before I practice before I teach a thing I like to try to practice it and experiment it with first to see what I get So from my 70 grand that I'm putting into this one whole life insurance policy contract 26 000 of bills expenses I'm going to put in the policy first Then borrow out and pay the expense Right, and I want to see what is the net result from that um, and the other thing I let my clients know is right off the bat When you start a policy the first one to two years Your most expensive years, so you're already negative Maybe 18 percent Or more depending on how you split the premiums and the cash value dollars Right, so if you did a 50 50 split Where you got 50 percent of 70 grand going to cash 50 percent of your 70 grand going to um, whole life insurance based premium You have a net loss technically on the cash value in the first year of more than negative 50 percent it's like negative 60 percent or more which is why I always tell my clients listen. That's a bad strategy. There's agents that are designing policies that way for infinite banking calling it infinite banking And it's it's not ideal. It's not efficient. So I say, you know Lower those premiums down increase the cash value a little bit more to help with your negative starting point in year one. So that's the first thing and I account for that 26 grand I've identified in my bills and my expenses. This is money per year that I can run through a credit card Okay Earning anywhere from two to three percent in cashback rewards and the net number that I recapture is 12 percent Which is three thousand one hundred and 20 where's that 12 coming from is that from points? From point yeah cash straight up cashback rewards and points that I can convert to statement credit, right? Okay, the the real more realistic number is somewhere anywhere from three to five k But I went with the lower number, right? So three thousand one twenty. So technically I've reduced my expenses from 26,000 Right minus the three one twenty. So now I'm at 22 is really What I'm actually pulling from the policy As a loan Say five percent Right. I know the loan interest rates have gone down to three to four percent as of late but in 2018 2019 is when I established my policy. So loan rate is is say five percent and you're and you're pulling out When you say pulling out you're borrowing against to pay off the credit card balance pay off the credit card. Yes credit card balance be at you 26 Because the points would come at a later date so the points I can uh Accumulate this it your points are accumulated immediately. So I can just every every um due date I can apply it. Okay, right. So uh, was it three twenty divided by twelve? It's like 260 a month That I can apply to the different credit cards. So it lowers the bill. Okay, right? and then my net my actual net Out of the policy is is this number, right? So in addition to this 26 grand the actual when I look at the actual cost of my bills, it's a little bit higher than 26 grand because I was paying say a monthly expense of um, a lot of the business subscriptions that I have And you know how when you sign up for zoom or kajabi or convert it when you pay annual you save 10% say 15% Netflix pay for the year right whatever it is. So I look at all those things and I convert everything to annual run it on the card The card that I get is usually a zero percent for six twelve 18 24 months I'm paying the monthly minimum Right The monthly minimum on the card On the card yes because there's no interest right Fair and then I let the money in the policy season In the policy for as long as humanly possible And then I'll pull it out in one shot pay the credit card off in one shot Do it again the next year Right. How are you paying that loan back though? See that is the issue So what I do is I actually don't pay the loan at all I I let it stay outstanding. I just cover the interest. So 22,880 times five percent simple interest Is 1,144 so in this example technically, I'm okay It didn't cost me any more dollars because This money offset my borrowing costs for the policy. Does that make sense? I'm tracking what you're saying. Yeah Yeah, so that right there is technically a win. Okay, that's cool But I'm still negative on the policy itself That's going to take maybe four to seven years before the cash value Starts to break even and start producing a positive one two three four percent return. So The conclusion I've come to is that this can only work for a few years Before it don't matter because I'm saving on average Uh, roughly 15 percent by switching from monthly to annual. So it's a 15 percent saving on average and I'm getting 12 percent a total off the cashback rewards right a total Net savings right or cashback rewards Of everything that's running through the card itself right So I'm earning three to five k off the bills So that's If I'm doing the math, right, it's 12 percent of that number. Okay, cool Yep You know man, even with Even with that that Still negative and eventually This number starts to get pretty high The year your barring costs on the loans. Yeah, I do it again The next year and your spending loan is bigger and your interest So eventually this supersedes this So now I am coming out of pocket And then there's a whole notion of yes when you pay interest back to your policy That you know, it goes to the company and the company pays you in the form of dividends Okay, but that's That's not a reliable Measurement for me Like I know what I'm getting from the insurance company. Right. This is a completely different cost So I've come to the conclusion that it only works for a period of time It should not be a lifetime type of thing in the policy Uh I don't see the full value in it. Um, well, I know I can I know I can do better Yeah, other things. Yeah, so So I'll I'll give you my two cents on this and I appreciate you breaking this math down Um, I I think I think number one What is the main goal when you read infinite banking? And what nelson talked about it actually came in a form of a Shot analogy where he talks about volume versus rate. It doesn't matter You know how fast the the Liquid goes into your arm. It's it's the volume that can really get you in trouble And so my I think we can both agree that the volume of savings Is a good thing if we can help our guys save more money They're having a greater volume Growing hopefully and by nature they'll have control over those dollars Which I'll be the first to say some some people will do worse with control because of bad behavior and habits But we're making the we're making the assumption that if you have control, it's going to be a positive thing That's why this is not for everybody And I simplify it as much as here's my principle The most efficient way in whatever scenario is what is allowing me to save more money Now if we if I'm borrowing at five to use your example And I am buying a cd at four percent in one year What my policy is going to grow regardless we can agree on that yeah My policy is going to internally give me all the benefits of life insurance, which which is is amazing But if I'm borrowing at five And earning four I just created a negative 20 percent Arbitrage on my money in that year. Yes, like here. Let me pay you $5 and you give me four back I'm not I'm not a genius and you would say some people would say well I'm a genius because my policy is growing and I got four dollars. Well your policy is going to grow regardless So so you'd be better off Not doing that transaction Um, and so I and this might be this is this why I want to have a discussion and that's scenario that you went through Mathematically, you'd be better off paying cash for those expenses. I love what you're doing annualizing using credit cards Mathematically, you would actually be better off paying cash And and allowing yourself to take that extra savings versus the monthly since you're saving that 12 plus 5 percent all those things And just saving more in the policy You know what I'm saying So that's like, you know, and then the other thing is the other thing is And I this is I get people that don't like when I say this but it's like if I'm going to make a purchase Let's say it's a car If I'm going to make a purchase the first first thing I need to do is I need to say should I buy this car It has nothing to do with do I have the money? Do I have the credit capacity? It's like should I buy this car and you we need to have some kind of framework to decide that a lot of times we Dave Ramsey puts that you know how you should buy something with what you should buy So I'm going to buy this car and it's $10,000 and I have $200,000 of cash value I have money in the bank And I have a credit union that I could borrow a borrow from And it really comes down to I'm looking at my scenario and saying okay payment is not an issue in this case So I'm either going to take a policy loan At five percent now a lot of these companies are four percent. So four percent policy loan My I could take a zero percent. I could take my cash money out of cash um, or I could take a you know a bank or a credit union and let's say it's a 2.5 In my head, I'm going to take the 2.5 Take take that pay the credit union because I respect that my money in my policy And my money in the banking I have a more respect for liquidity and control more than two and a half percent Got it, you know, and so it's just it's it's um That's the thing where where you know, if we have if we have a hatred for banks life insurance can be a Way, okay, bad. Yeah, so you just brought up a good point. So there is a sector of people that Just don't want to deal with dealerships don't want to deal with borrowing from banks and taking loans So so I say well in that case Yeah, you could save save your money in cash right life insurance and borrow from yourself to finance something right and if you were to compare it to um Getting a five percent car loan seven percent car loan versus a four percent simple interest Loan on your policy. Yeah, there is a a benefit there um, so I I definitely work with a lot of different clients that um do that and I've also created content Where I talk about right running bills through your policy In the most in my in my thought process. Okay, if you're gonna do it because I can't stop you right if you're gonna do it At least do it in the most efficient possible way you can right and you're still gonna net a negative Right, and I appreciate my numbers right. I use my numbers to prove it like you're eventually going to net a negative And in the first couple years, maybe not if you do it right But you're eventually going to net a negative especially when you compare it to something else you could have done like maybe like I'm at a point now where I use my policies for uh syndicating right and I also use it to actually run the personal side of of my life and even the the business side so I know my business is going to produce 30 40 profits Let me you can then argue that oh well, he ran his business expenses through his policy is cost him x but he's producing a 30 40 return Okay, well then he made sense of it. So right as long as you're growing your business It's as long as you're growing your business. How many people one of those things how many people are going to do that You know exactly. It's like invest in your number one asset which I'm a huge fan of like We're going to double our business and you know, we go out of business But here's here's what I'm saying and I want to say two other things is is Like I really appreciate this combo because I think we're I think we're going to help a lot of people and just because there's going to be Some people that really relate with how you're articulating and there's going to be some people that relate with I with how I articulated and the hope is to increase the financial literacy of just both of our communities So the so the thought process is number one Um, if if like I'm not a huge fan of using you know policy to pay off debt or to buy lifestyle stuff I've made that clear and the asterisks That might be the right thing that someone needs to do because they'll never start saving They like they'll never start. Okay. And so they're like, okay. Okay. So what's what's better? And this goes back to Dave Ramsey There's some people that should pay off their mortgage There's some people that should crud up their credit cards Because it's the mortgages in the credit card that are like They're they're not like it you have to put in human behavior. So while I'll make it very clear I'm not going to go on record saying like do this and pay personal expenses and you know, you know necessarily pay off that it would does mathematically make sense if you're borrowing at five to pay off higher debt That's that's mathematically a more efficient way to do it I will I will say that you know, there are some people that Works we just have to be super conservative because normally those are the same type of people that get in financial pinches And then their policy could be at risk because they're over leveraged and then we have that uncomfortable conversation Then the next thing I'll say whether it's a a debt or an investment And let's just suppose for the moment that it could be 12 percent And you're able to borrow at five And make 12 percent. Let's let's let's do the math here You're you're getting all the benefits of life insurance and you're going to get those benefits regardless It's costing you five percent in my book. I talk about it being a control cost And you're able to earn 12 so going back to the equation if I give you five and you give me 12 back That's 140 return on my money And my cash value is still doing its thing because my policy I'm using it. It's collateral So when we talk about giving your dollar more than one job I like that's So it's my whole philosophy is If we're gonna take a if we're gonna take a borrowing if we're gonna borrow I call it control cost Whatever that control cost is we got to make sure that whatever activity we're doing It's creating a greater result a greater outcome than the cost Of controlling capital whether it's at us bank life insurance policy or if it's paying cash And there's a cost of paying cash because it's when we pay cash we're taking this money and now we're we're surrendering it We're never able to have it back. So it's not just free There's a cost to giving up control and so again, man like I appreciate this because we're you know The hope yeah, we're being real transparent. Yeah. Yeah Which and and we're not you're and you're doing in a way where you're not like really Shunning or hating on what others have done Okay, or pretty good or not so good with their policy You know the other argument to defend those who do run their cars and I mean run anything and everything do their policy In their defense, they're looking at it as like That was money I was going to spend anyways So by having it go through the policy first and that money is going to grow forever I'm willing to pay that quote-unquote control cost and I've done videos in support of that But just like the evolution of my youtube channel, you know, there were things that I've said in 2018 That I don't necessarily align with all the way in now 2022 Finance is very, you know, you got to be adaptable Very fluid with it and willing to be wrong So that you can course correct. So I've been wrong so many times In the past and I keep those videos up and I even comment. I'm like, hey, I was wrong. I made a mistake here on this video I'm showing you I'm human. I'm showing you I make mistakes Um, don't rely on everything I say. Don't just take it as gospel But rather trust but verify trust but rare verify and even in those videos where I've made mistakes I'm like Run these numbers Prove me wrong run the numbers prove me and then I have people come back and say, hey, uh, you made a mistake here or hey instead of saying barring, maybe you should say uh I still get that wrong Barring from a barring against. Yeah, and that was another little epiphany I had um My mentor Steve Parisi actually took me to the language Of what insurance companies use in their actual language and so Borrowing from and borrowing against is more of like an insurance agent. It's like an agency agent language Um, that's used but from what I understand the insurance language. They actually say borrowing from Your cash value policy. So Don't beat yourself up. I think I was beat myself up a little bit. I was like, wait, am I guiding people wrong on this? But I've now told my clients. I'm like, you know, I'm not going to beat myself up if I say borrow from borrow against You know what I mean if you don't know Here's what I say in the video. I'm borrowing. I'm taking from here This here is policy. They're called infinite banking or the and acid is allowing you to create a loan and you could say I'm I'm borrowing from my infinite banking strategy. So Yeah, dude, so I try not to let the client Beat themselves up right because I'm like as long as you get the the fundamentals Um, you're gonna do okay. Here's no then it's just a matter of Mastering it. Here's what I'll say dude is we're talking. We're able to have a deep conversation There's not a lot of people that are willing to get deep and talk about certain things So a lot of times I feel like people are pretty surface level and like all this stuff So I appreciate that about just our friendship and and our ability to speak on this and I hope we can do more of this And so that that's first thing I'll say and then and then the second thing I'll say is um, we're talking about some deep powerful strategies And let's be let's be frank. The fact that someone's watching this right now Is is um, the fact that they know what infinite banking is or potentially knows what inf Our velocity banking is and understands leverage and value creation like We're going back to our example. It's like, yeah, we could we could negotiate like what is the better way to do this thing? And the majority of the world is doing the 3% or 4% rule and will never become wealthy because they're not they don't have an ounce of leverage working in their favor and And yet, you know, so it's just one of those things perspective tells you that um pat yourself on the back Give us a follow like this video share it with people that need to hear this Uh, Denzel is there anything else that you want to share man? Like I this has been one of the longest Interviews that I've done, but I'm I'm grateful for the long form. I'm sure this will be chopped up in some areas But then obviously for those brave people they can listen all the way through I promise you that those those are the people that are your clients. That's right or will become clients So it's a numbers game at the end of the day This thing only gets a thousand views like the reality is the people that are actually looking For this type of content are also looking for the relationship and connection with their agent um, and that's something that This is us practicing how we can be even more ethical and more responsible With our clients. So that's a good, you know, another epiphany I had is my My mindset when I'm working with a client. I earn a commission And I get paid one time and then I'm going to receive a residual commission off that one client for the next 10 years roughly In my head frame, I'm like How can I continuously give value to that one client? Not in just those 10 years But the next 20 the next 30 the next 40 to the point where I get invited to their funeral I get invited to the kid's wedding You know, I'm a part of that household Right and you know, I've been I've again been so blessed to talk with other insurance agents and see how they're running their practices And I'm able to identify what I like and what I don't like Because one agent I I had the privilege privilege of actually meeting in person here in south florida He was telling me he's personally delivered checks to um His clients or that have uh or helped helped in the process of getting their death benefits and things like that and it's a powerful thing Yeah, um to have worked with someone and then they pass away and then you see the thing do what it said it was going to do And then you help them put the next policy in place and put the next assets in place And now you're working with the spouse or now you're working with the son or the daughter of the mother father that you were working with So again, I'm 26 and again most of my clients are double almost triple my age It's very likely a lot of my clients are going to pass away before I do So I'm doing everything in my power to have the utmost integrity with these video that these videos that we do So allowing that client base that you have that I have and then the The growing client base those are the ones that actually watch this video and they're really going to appreciate this And they're going to watch the whole hour and a half however long we've been going almost two hours Almost yeah, almost two hours now They're going to take that as like I want these guys I want them to be at my funeral. I want them to make sure that my wife is taken care of right because I want to make sure that my kids Receive the same knowledge that Caleb and the Zells receiving. I mean do wear examples for the next generation And the current generation So we have a lot of stress on our shoulders, right? And we don't show it But we've got a lot that we um are carrying the integrity that we have to keep The value that we have to present and give to our clients new clients existing clients selling to the prospects And then just maintaining that Uh, uh, ultimate like hey if i'm wrong Let's course correct Caleb if I get something wrong. I expect Caleb to reach out to me then zeal you should look into that You know, you might Eh might want to look into that and I have some youtubers that do that and I really appreciate it And dude, it's helped me grow even more grow the channel more get more views That's the funny thing is this is not a scarcity world. It's like the people that are abundant that share That are open are going to grow and impact more people because they're we're not focused on this small little Pie that we're operating and it's like it's it's possible that we could teach 20 30 of people in america to start thinking leverage And um, there's a lot of people that that that equates to a lot of people. So dude, um, we'll put your info in the description Any any any anything else that you would like to give away or any any call actions from from this podcast Obviously your youtube channel is an incredible resource. I would encourage everyone watching this to go check you out give you a subscribe and And just follow what you're doing man. This is the way that we're gonna up our game is is by getting getting More people educated about this concept of leverage I would say some some just to close out You know in regards to velocity banking the different ways that you can use that When you go to my channel, I tend to usually tell people to go back Start from the beginning work your way up But over the recent years I've created some really really good playlist that puts everything in chronological order So I have a playlist called velocity banking pregame work Have a playlist that talks about all about the line of credit how to get it questions to ask Zalfrey I got A playlist that's literally velocity banking real life case studies I'm using low income high income mid income fluctuating income salary income hour. I mean you name it so many different scenarios That help you determine whether or not This is right for you because it's not right for everybody And I allow the math to tell you Whether it's correct or not you have to yield a positive better result Than that snowball debt avalanche that snowball debt avalanche are measuring stick If you can't beat that snowball debt avalanche with velocity banking Then you're better off sticking with that snowball debt avalanche in terms of paying off debt, right? You know just keeping it like that infinite banking Caleb's got his practice. I'm partnered with Steve Parisi I don't necessarily personally write and design the policies think of me as more of a strategist where I am more so having conversations and making videos on Once the policy is in place now what? Before the policy is in place. Here are all the things you should talk to about your agent Here are the things that you should qualify the agent with The agent is qualifying you you also need to qualify the agent as a customer. It's really helpful And have the intent that this agent Is going to be with you for a really long time So see if they're planning on staying in this career or if this is just a stepping stone And if it is see if they're a part of an agency where if anything happens to him or her You can still tap into an agency and have a direct connection I can't I can't tell you how many clients I get from other agencies that lack customer service It's not that they don't know the stuff They just lack customer service They lack attention. They lack education And then these clients are coming to me and they're like dude. I learned so much from your videos I have an agent But I was asking him about getting an enforced illustration. I was asking him about the policy loans I was asking him about the dividend rate and he was so defensive or she was so defensive and they kind of argued with me And made me feel like dumb So I canceled the policy and I was like, no, why'd you do that? so You know, I'll just say like, okay before you make a move before you switch and change an agent let's see the the The integrity of how good that policy was designed. We may not want to kill it Might just want to do a reduced pay up So you don't have to pay premiums anymore and then it just stays there and you have that ever increasing line of credit So maybe we don't want to just kill it Um, or maybe we don't want to just do a 10 35 exchange Maybe just pay the monthly minimum on it because it's already established Or, you know, if you just got it last year, then that's typically not so bad to do a 10 35 exchange um in like the first one or two years usually But that's usually how I you know work with people. Um, I'm a strategist. I'm a consultant. I'm a coach I I'm gonna do more than just Help you put a policy in place, you know, and so will Caleb Just from his book alone And the videos that he puts out so whomever you feel most comfortable with like really Do your due diligence on me on Caleb on others in the space You know, I I have a great partnership with uh, steve perisi over at iBC global whom you I think already collaborated with I saw a small clip come out on your channel. So that was pretty cool. That's where I get a lot of my information from um, and yeah, there is the lack of licensed insurance agents right now Below the age 40. I think it is It's incredible. It's incredible the opportunity for the amount of um current licensed insurance agents Versus the amount of uninsured people in america, right the vast opportunity to make a lot of wealth a lot of money So I have no lack whatsoever. I know Caleb operates in no lack unfortunately our elders In the infinite banking and insurance base tend to have their proprietary Practices and don't want to open the doors and don't want to teach don't want to collaborate They throw hate they throw shade. It's unfortunate. But Caleb and I are the next generation We're coming up when when the elders pass away and they expire and they go back to their lord their creator We're setting the new example of how agencies can work together can collaborate Eat your cake or I have your cake and eat it too And still have more like Hey, um, Caleb. I I got this client They um They don't really they don't want to go with me. They got this other design that they're looking at Can you reach out to them? Maybe you can help them design a policy? I want to make sure they get the right design and I know That the current illustration they have right now That they are planning on going with is a bad design, but they're not seeing it. I didn't convey it right. Can you? right Now that client didn't go with the bad policy. They went with Caleb. I lost the money But the client got served properly. I'm willing to do that all day long You know and I even I put people's names out like I did a video Yeah, I saw that I named a bunch of the insurance players that I I believe Are are doing right they have established practices. I don't I don't agree with every single one of them But here are the players. Yeah, um, here's who's who I've seen I've done my due diligence Here's who is who is existing. It's really not a lot. It's really not a lot of us that are established So, you know, if you find someone that's not on the list, let's add them to it. Put them in the comments um, and if there's any Here's what I'm asking if you're watching till the end, please uh Comment, please. Uh, you deserve a trophy and we appreciate your time and attention. Denzel. Thank you. We'll put your contact info and your YouTube in in the uh comments or not in the comments in the description Appreciate you man. Thank you for taking time and uh, we'll we'll we'll see you around Dude, god bless and let's let's keep doing this. This is fun